翻译：hardstick 校订：hardstick 时间轴：hardstick
[car radio flipping stations] [车载收音机调台声]
[William Pierce over radio]It's frighteningly clear now that there is no way to win the struggle in which we are engaged [威廉.皮尔斯通过电台]现在非常清楚的是，在我们进行的这样斗争中，
without shedding torrents,veritable rivers of blood. 不血流成河，是绝不可能取胜的。
[Rush Limbaugh over radio]It's an endless parade of the dregs of our society. [拉什.林堡通过电台] 这就是我们社会的渣滓们无休止的游行。
This is your country. 这就是你们的国家。
These are the people that live next door to you. 这些就是住在你隔壁的人。
This is what's become of your country. 这就是你们国家的现状。
[G. Gordon Liddy] Neutering the Second Amendment with the assault weapons ban, [G.戈登.林迪] 用攻击性武器禁令来阉割《第二修正案》，
violating the 10th Amendment with the Brady Bill, 用《布莱迪手枪暴力防制法案》来违反《第十修正案》， （布雷迪：白宫新闻秘书，里根遇刺是受到枪伤）
and slaughtering citizens using the ATF and the FBI Schutzstaffel is shredding the Constitution. 用烟酒武器管理局和FBI的“党卫军般”职员们屠杀人民，并撕毁宪法。
[Mark Koernke] The enemy has many assets at their disposal. [马克.科恩克] 敌人有许多可供支配的资产。
The best one we have here is you. 而我们这里，只有最好的你。
一场发生在美国的爆炸 --- 通向四月19日之路 翻译：hardstick 校订：hardstick 时间轴：hardstick
（俄克拉荷马城）
- [man] Yeah, now you're on it. - I don't think so. -[男人] 是的，现在你在画面里。 -我不这么认为。
[man] Yeah, the red light's on. [男人] 是的，红灯亮着呢。
Does it say "recording" there? 屏幕上显示“录像”了吗？
[woman] Every April 19th is bittersweet. [凯西.桑德斯] 每年的4月19日，都是在痛苦中回忆快乐。
I remember exactly what I was doing that morning. 我清楚地记得那天早上，我在做什么。
- [child giggling] - [Sanders] Who's in that cave? -[孩子们咯咯笑] -[桑德斯] 谁在那个洞里?
[Sanders] What's on my back? [桑德斯] 什么东西，在我的后面？
Uh, a raccoon. 呃，一只浣熊。
[Sanders] My grandchildren,Chase and Colton, I went in and flipped the light on in their bedroom, [桑德斯]我的孙子，蔡斯和科尔顿，我走进他们的卧室，
and I sang, "Good morning to you. Good morning to you. 打开灯，我唱着:“祝你们早上好。祝你们早上好。
We're all in our places with sunshine-y faces. 我们都在自己的地方，脸上洋溢着阳光。
What a nice way to start a new Wednesday." 多么好的方式，开始了新的星期三啊。”
And Chase begins to giggle. 蔡斯开始咯咯地笑。
- [Sanders] Those are so cute. -[桑德斯]这真可爱。
- What are you eating, Chase? - [Colton babbling] -你在吃什么，蔡斯？ -[科尔顿呀呀学语]
[man] Bye-bye. [男人]再见。
[Sanders] I remember when I left them at the daycare... [桑德斯] 我记得我把他们留在日托所的时候...
- [man] Look at his teefers. - [Sanders] I love you. -[男人]看他的小牙齿。 -[桑德斯] 我爱你。
Are we on our way to school? 我们在去学校的路上吗?
[Sanders] ...there in the Federal Building. [桑德斯]...就在联邦大楼里。
The little donut crumbs that were on their faces. 他们脸上,都沾有甜甜圈的小碎屑。
Then, at 9:02... 那时，是9点02分...
[explosion] [爆炸声]
[glass and metal rattling] [玻璃和金属碎裂声]
[reporter 1] It looks like part of the building has been blown away. [记者1] 看起来，大楼的一部分，被炸飞了。
We'll have to bank around the other side so I can get a better view of it. 我们得绕到另一边去，这样我才能看得更清楚。
[reporter 2] As the chopper goes around the Federal Building... [记者2]当直升机绕过联邦大楼时...
- [reporter 3] Wow.- [reporter 2] Look at that shot. -[记者3] 哇。 -[记者2] 把那儿也拍摄下来。
- [reporter 3] Holy cow. - [reporter 2] Incredible. -[记者3] 天哪。 -[记者2] 不可思议。
The side of the Federal Building has been blown off. 联邦大楼的一侧被炸掉了。
[people clamoring] [人们的惊恐喧嚷声]
[man] Get back! [男人]退后!
Get 'em back! Get 'em back! 让他们退后！ 让他们退后！
[sirens wailing] [警笛哀鸣]
[man over radio] We got damage and injuries - all up and down Broadway. - [man] Get them back! [男人通过对讲机] 百老汇大街上到处都是受伤的人。-[男人]让他们退后！
[man over radio]We need all fire, ambulances you can get. [男人通过对讲机] 我们需要你能调动的所有消防车和救护车。
[woman] It felt to me like my skin was burning off. [南希.肖] 我感觉我的皮肤都被烧光了。
It was very hot, 感觉很烫，
and it was a wind so powerful that it felt like it pinned my hair back. 一阵强风吹来，感觉就像把我的头发，吹到了后面。
[woman] I heard a very loud explosion,and I noticed a plume of smoke [玛莎.金贝尔] 我听到一声巨大的爆炸声，我注意到一股烟雾
coming up from downtown Oklahoma City. 从俄克拉荷马城市中心升起。
So I ran back in the house and turned on the TV. 于是我跑回屋里，打开电视。
That's where my daughter,Frankie, works. 那是我女儿，弗兰基工作的地方。
And as we made our way closer to the building... 当我们赶到靠近大楼时... （弗兰基.梅丽尔，23岁）
I said, "My daughter is dead." 我说:“我女儿死了。”
[man] I had little hope. [巴德.韦尔奇] 我不抱什么希望。
Because Julie worked on the first floor. 因为朱莉在一楼工作。 (朱莉.韦尔奇，23岁)
And of course the first floor had more deaths than any other floor. 当然，一楼的死亡人数，比其他楼层都多。
April 19th,my dad had an appointment to go down to the Social Security building that morning. 4月19日上午，我爸约好要去社保大楼。 (拉多娜.巴特尔勒沃雷特)
I knew my mom went down with him. 我知道，我妈和他一起去的。 (巴特尔夫妇，加尔文和佩欧拉)
The news starts to come in,"There's been a bomb." 新闻开始传来，“那里发生一起爆炸案。”
When they said the Social Security building, 当他们说到社保大楼的时候， （当时，联邦大楼为俄州政府综合服务大楼）
I mean... 我是想说...
everything at that moment just stopped. 那一刻，一切都停止了。
[man over radio] Got two down. [男人通过对讲机] 找到了两个人。
They're unconscious and not moving. 他们都失去了知觉，不能动了。
I need ambulances. 我需要救护车。
[Tom Brokaw] In the heart of Oklahoma, [汤姆.布罗考] 在俄克拉何马城的市中心，
in the heart of the capital city, 在州首府的中心，
a terrible bomb has been exploded. 一颗可怕的炸弹爆炸了。
The governor has had a report that six children were killed in a daycare center. 州长接到报告说，一家日托中心，有六名儿童被杀。
[man] Got one here! [男人] 这里找到一个！
[man over radio] In the basement of the Federal Building, [男人通过对讲机] 在联邦大楼的地下室，
there's a children's center. 有一个儿童中心，
We need to get fire department officials here as quick as we can. 我们得尽快把消防人员叫来。
I said to my daughter, I said, "Edye, the babies." 我对我女儿说:“艾迪，孩子们。”
And we take off running to the north side of the building, 我们开始跑到大楼的北边，
and the building's gone. 然后大楼就不见了。
[Edye sobbing] [艾迪的哭泣声]
[Sanders] My son was an off-duty police officer. [桑德斯] 我儿子是一名休班警官。
He saw his mom and his sister on TV, 他在电视上，看到他妈妈和妹妹，
he knew something was wrong. 他知道出事了。
[man] I looked up at the TV, [丹尼尔.科斯] 我抬头看电视，
and I saw my mom and my sister clutching each other, 我看到妈妈和妹妹，紧紧地抱在一起，
and my sister was screaming,"Where's my babies? Where's my babies? Where's my babies?" 我妹妹在尖叫:“我的孩子们呢? 我的孩子们呢？我的孩子们呢？” (丹尼尔.科斯，前俄克拉荷马警察局警官)
[sobbing] My babies were in there! [哭诉] 我的孩子在里面!
[man over radio] Have we got information on where they have taken the children from the daycare? [对讲机男声]我们得到他们把孩子们从日托所，带到哪里去的消息了吗?
[dispatcher] I have not been advised. [调度员] 我没有被告知。
[siren whoops] [警笛呼叫]
[Coss] Upon arrival at the site, my partner and I went into the rubble. [科斯] 一到现场，我和我的搭档就进入了废墟中。
I went to the back side of the building, which would be on the side of the daycare center. 我走到大楼的后面，就在日托中心的那一边。
They had about 10 to 12 children laid out on a piece of concrete slab. 他们把大约10到12个孩子，放在一块混凝土板上。
They were laid one next to the other, and at the very end to the right, I found Colton. 他们一个挨着一个地躺着，在最右边的尽头，我找到了科尔顿。
I knew that would be the last time I saw my nephew. 我知道，那将是我最后一次见到我的外甥。
I asked a state law enforcement officer that was there if I could reach down,hug him, and kiss him goodbye. 我问在场的一位州执法官员，我能不能弯下腰，拥抱他，和他吻别。
And he told me,"This is a crime scene.Do not touch the evidence." 他告诉我，“这是犯罪现场。不要碰证据。”
爆炸杀死了168人，包括19名儿童。
[Katie Couric] Of all the sad stories in Oklahoma City today, [凯蒂·库里克]在今天俄克拉荷马城所有悲伤的故事中，
the most heartbreaking may be the stories of the children 最令人心碎的可能是，那些孩子们的报道了，
who were in the daycare center when the bomb exploded. 当炸弹爆炸时，孩子们就在日托中心。
What is your overwhelming emotion as you face this horrendous tragedy in your family? 当你面对这些个可怕的家庭悲剧时，你的情绪是什么？
Those babies were just like mine, and I loved them. 那些孩子就像我的一样，我爱他们。
And anybody could understand the loss of a child, 任何人都能理解，失去孩子的痛苦，
but to then have to watch your child grieve over the loss of those children, 但眼看着你的孩子，也在为失去那些孩子而悲伤时，
it's devastating. 这才是伤心欲绝。
[Couric] Edye, are you confident that the people behind this will be caught? [库里克] 艾迪，你有信心，这些幕后黑手会被抓住吗？
I don't know. I hope so. 我不知道。我希望如此。
I-- I don't know. 我...我不知道。
As a young reporter, I used to cover Oklahoma City streets. 作为一名年轻的记者，我曾经报道过俄克拉荷马城的街道。
Usually nothing more exciting than a car crash. 通常，没有什么比交通事故，更刺激的新闻了。
You know, everyone at NBC News knew I was an Okie 全国广播公司新闻部的每个人，都知道我是俄克拉荷马人，
because I always bragged about the fact that I was an Okie. 因为，我总是吹嘘，自己是俄克拉荷马州人。 (迈克.博特切尔，调查记者)
So there was no doubt who they were gonna send. 所以，他们该派谁去，那是毫无疑问的。
When I got to the site of the Federal Building, 当我到达联邦大楼所在地时，
I thought, "This can't be the place where I lived,Oklahoma City." 我想，“这不可能是我住过的，那个俄克拉荷马城。”
It reminded me of Beirut. 它让我想起了贝鲁特。
[siren wailing] [警笛呼啸] （1983年贝鲁特美国大使馆爆炸案）
It brought back memories of the Marine barracks, and the embassy bombing, 它勾起了我对海军陆战队兵营爆炸案，大使馆爆炸案
and other terrorist attacks that I covered. 以及我报道过的，其他恐怖袭击的回忆。
And I said, "This is Oklahoma, this can't happen here." 我说，“这可是俄克拉何马州府啊！这种事不可能发生在这里。”
A U.S. government source has told CBS News 一位美国政府消息人士，告诉哥伦比亚广播公司新闻部，
it has Middle East terrorism written all over it. 这是中东恐怖主义的标志。
[Boettcher] Everyone was thinking Arab terrorism [博特切尔]每个人都在想阿拉伯恐怖主义
because there'd been an attempt to bomb the World Trade Center... 因为有人企图炸毁世贸中心...
and the bombers,they were from the Middle East. 而爆炸袭击者来自中东地区。 （1993年2月26日，世界贸易中心爆炸案）
But I went to NBC and said, 我去全国广播公司新闻部，我说，
"Let me put together a team to investigate this." “让我组织一个团队，来调查这件事。”
The first person I thought of was Bob Sands. 我想到的第一个人是鲍勃·桑兹。
I have this friend,and he had done some work for some far right-wing people in Duncan, Oklahoma. 我有一个朋友，他曾在俄克拉何马州邓肯市，为一些极右翼人士做过一些工作。 (鲍勃.桑兹，全国广播公司调查记者)
So I said, "Just check the boards and see what the chatter is." 于是我说:“去搜索网络各论坛的公告板，看看聊天室里，都在聊什么。”
- [dial-up modem screeching] - [keyboard clacking] -[拨号调制解调器狂响] -[键盘狂敲]
[Sands] About an hour later he called and said, [桑兹]大约一个小时后，他打电话说，
"You're not gonna believe this.You need to come here." “你不会相信的。你得过来亲眼看看。”
People were just going ape over it in the far right,the militia movement, 在极右翼论坛中，在民兵运动论坛中，那里的人们，对此感狂热兴奋，
saying, "Who did this? What's that all about? That's awesome." 说，“这是谁干的？这是怎么回事？太棒了。”
I would just ask that you and the American people not rush to any conclusions 我只要求你和美国人民，不要急于在没有已知证据支持的情况下，妄下结论，
unsupported by known evidence and that we give investigators the space they need to do their job. 我们要给调查人员足够的空间，来完成他们的工作。
[Clinton] My initial reaction was, first of all,to try to get everybody to calm down and not react with their words. [克林顿]我最初的反应是，首先，试着让每个人都冷静下来，不要顺着他们的话做回应。
I didn't want to stir whatever was going on up any more. 我不想再搅乱，正在进行的工作了。 （比尔.克林顿，1993-2201年美国总统）
And everyone immediately assumed that it was a Muslim extremist attack, 所有人都立刻认为，这是一次穆斯林极端分子的袭击，
and I wasn't so sure. 我当时还不太确定。
- Shoot from the waist... 从腰部射击... （北阿肯色）
[Clinton] My native state was almost like honey for bees to attract a lot of these extremist groups, [克林顿]我的家乡几乎就像蜜蜂的蜂蜜，吸引了很多极端主义团体，
and they moved in and out of there. 他们在那里，进进出出。
When Oklahoma City happened... 当俄克拉荷马城事件发生的时候...
my life and experience told me there was a very good chance that this was a homegrown plot. 我的生活和经验告诉我，这很有可能是一个“本土阴谋”。
On the drive up there, there's a lot going through your head. 在开车的路上,有很多事情要经历你的头脑。 （丹尼.库尔森，前FBI特别探员）
You've got to command a major bombing investigation, and you're thinking of all the things you have to do. 你要指挥一场重大的爆炸案调查，你要考虑，所有你要做的事情。
And I am thinking,"April 19th, April 19th, okay." 我在想，“4月19日，4月19日，好吧。”
I just file it away. 我只是把它归档。
I get a call from a nationally known reporter, 我接到一个全国知名记者的电话，
and she said,"Is this Middle Eastern?" I said, "No, it's Bubbas.April 19th." 她说:“这是中东人干的吗?”我说:“不，是个南方保守派白人。在4月19日。”
Two years earlier,April 19th was the siege in Waco. 两年前的4月19日，是“韦科围城事件”。 （1993年，FBI和ATF联合围攻邪教组织“大卫教”聚集的庄园）
And I thought we were seeing the results of that anger against actions on the part of the government. 我认为，我们看到的是对政府行为的愤怒，引起的结果。
My thought is it's going to be Bubbas. 我觉得会是“布巴”们。 （典型的南方农村白人，具有传统或保守的价值观和政治观点）
[reporter] Emergency crews try to assist the injured. [记者] 紧急救援人员试图帮助伤者。
[man] That day,it was overwhelming to first go to the crime scene. [鲍勃.里克斯]那天，第一次去犯罪现场的感觉让人难以承受。 （前FBI特别探员）
Secret Service, IRS, ATF, 特勤局，国税局，烟酒武器管理局，
multiple federal agencies were housed in that building. 多家联邦机构都设在那栋楼里。
I was walking approximately a block and a half from the bomb scene. 我当时正走在离爆炸现场，大约一个半街区的地方。
There were two FBI agents and a sheriff looking at this rear axle of a truck. 有两名联邦调查局探员和一名警长，在看一辆卡车的后轴。
They believed it had come from the truck responsible for the bombing, 他们认为炸弹来自制造的“卡车炸弹”，
and they were removing the VIN number from the rear axle. 他们正在从后轴上取下车辆识别码。
And I told them to,"Guard that with your life. 我告诉他们:“用你的生命守护它。
That's probably gonna be the most important piece of evidence we have in this entire investigation." 这可能是，我们整个调查中，最重要的证据的一部分。”
We learned that particular truck had been rented three or four days before in Junction City, Kansas. 我们得知，那辆卡车是三四天前，在堪萨斯州的“章克申”城租的。
The person who rented it went by the name of Robert Kling, and he used a birth date of April 19th. 租赁者的名字是罗伯特·克林，他的出生日期是4月19日。
The mechanic that was working there probably had the best recollection of what he looked like. 在那里工作的机械师，可能对他的长相，记得最清楚。
Also he had a recollection of a person he thought had been with him,commonly called John Doe Number 2. 他还记得，一个他认为和他在一起的人，通常被称为“二号无名氏”。
先生，今天过得怎么样？ 我们目前正在调查俄克拉荷马城爆炸案。
你注意到一辆莱德卡车或黄色的卡车了吗？
[Coulson] We sent agents all over the country, [考尔森] 我们派了探员到全国各地，
primarily on I-35,going north and south on the interstates. 主要在I-35号州际公路上向北和向南行驶。
They went to a place called the Dreamland Hotel. 他们去了一个叫“梦之乡”的旅馆。
They interview the owner,show her pictures. 他们询问了店主，给她看了照片。
"Yeah, he was here.His name's Tim McVeigh." “是的，他在这里。他叫蒂姆·麦克维。”
He was a very nice young man basically. 他是个非常好的年轻人。
It's very shocking to think somebody has such a deprived mind. 想到有人竟会如此丧尽天良，真令人发指。 （莉亚.麦戈文，“梦之乡”旅馆老板）
[Ricks] We got the registration information. [里克斯] 我们拿到登记信息。
His name was Timothy McVeigh. 他叫蒂莫西·麦克维。
So an agent runs the name of Timothy McVeigh and he gets a hit, 所以一个探员查了蒂莫西·麦克维的名字，然后找到了匹配，
and says, "Boss, you're not gonna believe this bullshit, but Timothy McVeigh is-- is in custody." 说，“头儿，你肯定不信，蒂莫西·麦克维现在被拘留了。”
He had been arrested an hour and a half after the bombing in Perry, Oklahoma. 他是在俄克拉何马州的佩里，就在爆炸案发生一个半小时后被捕的。
[man] Here he is in his junker getaway car driving away from the scene of the crime. [丹,赫贝克] 这是他开着他的破车逃离犯罪现场的照片。 （《美国恐怖分子》一书的共同作者）
And he gets on the thruway and he-- 他上了高斯公路，然后就...
He thinks he's gotten away with it. 他以为，他能跑掉。
It turns out that McVeigh was missing a license plate from his vehicle. 结果发现，麦克维驾驶的车上，少了一个车牌。
When the trooper starts questioning McVeigh, he ascertains that McVeigh is carrying an unregistered handgun. 当骑警开始询问麦克维时，他确定麦克维携带一支未注册的手枪。
He arrests McVeigh. 他逮捕了麦克维。
McVeigh was wearing a T-shirt celebrating the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. 麦克维穿着一件，庆祝亚伯拉罕·林肯被刺的t恤。 （t恤上印的是：这就是暴君的下场）
And it always has astonished me that... 令我惊讶的是...
nobody put these two things together at the time. 当时居然还没有人，把这两件事放在一起。
But for two full days,they had no idea that he was involved with the bombing. 但整整两天，他们都不知道他与爆炸案有关。
And they were getting close to letting him go. 他们就这么随便地，放他走了。
It's just hard to believe. 真是难以置信。
You think it's going to be a nationwide search, and now you're told that he's roughly 70 miles away. 你认为这将是一个全国性的搜索，而现在你被告知，他就在大约70英里之外的地方。
[Coulson] I said,"Call them and tell them,Don't let that boy out." [考尔森] 我说:“给他们打电话，告诉他们，别让那个男孩溜了。”
You can imagine my phone ringing off my belt. 你可以想象，这时我的手机，在腰带上响了。
I mean, the--the Attorney General's calling, the director of the FBI's calling me, 我是说，司法部长打了电话，FBI局长就打电话给我，
"Get him out of there." “把他弄出来。”
Well, I was concerned about a rescue or attempt to kill him. 我担心的是，他们到底是营救他，还是试图弄死他。
And I didn't want to be the man who took McVeigh into custody and got him killed. 我也不想成为那个，因把麦克维抓起来，而害得他被弄死的人。
Uh, not-- not good. 呃，那样就不妙了。
I'd be working at Dairy Queen if that happened. 如果那样的话，我就只得在“皇后乳品店”打工了。
[Boettcher] He was captured about 30 miles from where I grew up. [博特切] 他是在离我长大的地方，大约30英里的地方被捕的。
And I thought it was foreigners. 我还以为，是外国人干的。
I didn't want to believe an American could do this. 我不愿相信，一个美国人，居然能做出这种事。
They marched Timothy McVeigh out of that jail, and I go, "You know,it wasn't a foreigner. 他们把蒂莫西·麦克维押出了监狱，我说，“你看，这不是外国人。
This is-- this is an American doing this to Americans." “这...这居然就是一个美国人，对美国大众所犯的罪行。”
[Coss] I was a little surprised that it was an American. [科斯] 我有点惊讶，这是一个美国人。
I drew a conclusion pretty quick that this was payback for Waco and the kids that were killed there. 我很快就得出结论，这是对“韦科事件”和在那里被杀的孩子们的复仇。
"You killed our kids,we're gonna kill your kids." “你杀了我们的孩子，我们也要杀了你的孩子。”
[Shaw] When I saw him on television, [肖] 当我在电视上看到他时，
I felt like I'd seen him in the building before. 我觉得，我以前在这栋楼里，见过他。
I remember being in the elevator... 我记得，是在电梯里...
and two men got on the elevator, 当时两个男人走进了电梯，
and one of them was McVeigh. 其中一个就是麦克维。
I always wondered if that was real or if I imagined that,with everything else going on. 我一直想知道，这是真的，还是我想象出来的，因为发生了这么多事。
[Welch] He had that orange jumpsuit on. [韦尔奇] 他穿着那件橙色的连身衣。
And my thought was, "I hope that somebody has a rifle and can just pick him off there." 我的想法是，“我希望有人，拿把步枪，能在那里，把他宰了。”
I mean, I was really wishing for that. 我是说，我真的希望那样。
[Battle-Leverett] You're looking for the monster, [巴特尔-莱弗瑞特] 你在找那个怪物，
and you-- and you finally get that day to see him, 而你，你终于有机会见到他了，
and you're thinking like,"Wait a minute, is this him?" 你会想，“等等，这是他吗?”
He looked like anyone's kid. 他看起来，就像个“邻家男孩”。
Just your normal average Joe. 就是一个“普通人”。
[man] He's got this look in his eyes. [凯瑞.诺贝尔] 他的眼神是这样的。 （前极端分子）
I believed that in his mind he wanted to look out at the crowd, 我相信在他心里，他想看看外面的人群，
right straight into the cameras,and go, 直接对着镜头，然后说，
"You're goddamn right I did it, and you're cowards if you don't do the same thing." “你说得太对了，是我干的，如果你不做同样的事，你就是懦夫。”
[reporter] There goes McVeigh,the first confirmed arrest... [记者] 麦克维被带走了，第一个被确认逮捕的...
in the Oklahoma bombing case. 在俄克拉荷马爆炸案中。
After we had McVeigh in custody,I had McVeigh's father flown to Oklahoma City to meet with me. 在我们抓拘留麦克维之后，我让麦克维的父亲飞到俄克拉荷马城与我见面。
I asked him, "You know your son. Who would be involved in this?" 我问他:“你了解你的儿子。谁会参与其中?” （比尔.麦克维）
And he said, "Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier." Like that. 他说:“特里·尼科尔斯和迈克尔·福捷。” 就像这样。
[Ricks] We learned he had been in basic training at Fort Benning, Georgia with a couple of guys [里克斯] 我们了解到，他曾在乔治亚州本宁堡，接受新兵基础训练时，
named Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier. 认识了特里.尼科尔斯和迈克尔.弗提耶。
Terry Nichols was older, 特里·尼科尔斯年纪大一些，
but they had struck up a friendship based on-- on their political beliefs. 但他们在政治信仰的基础上，建立了友谊。
We then learned Terry Nichols is now living in Kansas. 后来我们得知，特里·尼科尔斯现在住在堪萨斯州。
At his residence, we find the remnants of fertilizer that was used in the bombing itself. 在他的住所，我们发现了,爆炸中使用的化肥残留物。
But one of the biggest and most important pieces of information 但其中最大，也是最重要的信息，
is a telephone card sold by a right-wing group called Spotlight. 是右翼组织“聚光灯”出售的一张电话卡。
We pretty much were able to trace where they had been throughout the United States through that calling card. 通过这张电话卡片，我们几乎可以追踪到，他们在美国的行踪。
We find that Michael Fortier is now living in Arizona. 我们发现迈克尔,弗提耶，现在住在亚利桑那州。 （亚利桑那州 金曼）
[Fortier] I think people are looking right now for somebody to hang. [弗提耶] 我想，人们现在正在寻找一个可以绞死的人。
Now he may feel like there's nobody on this earth that is in any way supportive of him. 现在他可能觉得，这个世界上没有人，会以任何方式支持他。
But there is. There is. 但有的。还是有的。 （迈克尔.弗提耶，提莫希.麦克维的朋友）
Everybody should be supportive of him,because he is an innocent man. 大家本应该都支持他，因为他是一个天真的人。
[Coulson] I interviewed Michael Fortier. [考尔森] 我采访了迈克尔·弗提耶。
I said to him,"I need your help." 我对他说，“我需要你的帮助。”
And he said, 而他说，
"You don't understand.We're at war." “你不明白。我们在交战状态。”
I said,"I'd have killed you today.I'd have killed you now if we were at war.I'd have killed your buddies. 我说，“我今天就该杀了你。如果我们开战，我早就杀你了。我还会杀了你的伙伴。
We're not. You may be at war with your country. Your country's not at war with you." “我们不是在交战。你可能在和你的国家交战。你的国家，没有和你交战。”
I do not believe that Tim blew up any building in Oklahoma. 我不相信，蒂姆炸毁了俄克拉何马州的任何建筑。
And then he said to me,"It's about the Constitution." 然后他对我说:“这是关于宪法的。”
I said, "You're right.It is about the Constitution. Let me tell you what's going to happen. 我说:“你说得对。这关乎宪法。我来告诉你会发生什么。
I'm going to indict you under the Constitution. I'm going to convict you under the Constitution. “我要根据宪法，起诉你。我要根据宪法，给你定罪。
We'll handle your appeals under the Constitution. “我们也会根据宪法，对待你的上诉。
And sooner or later, somebody's going to put you on a gurney and stick a needle in your arm,and we're going to kill you. “迟早会有人，把你抬到轮床上，在你胳膊上扎一根针，然后我们就会杀了你。
You better decide if you're on my side or their side." 你最好决定，是站在我这边，还是他们那边。”
[Boettcher] Later on,after McVeigh had been charged, [博特切尔] 后来，在麦克维被起诉之后，
his attorneys let reporters meet with McVeigh one-on-one. 他的律师允许记者，单独采访麦克维。
The ground rule is this is not an interview, 基本规定是，这不是面谈，
this is kind of a "get to know you." 这是一种“了解你”的方式。
I had covered the first Gulf War, 我报道过第一次海湾战争，
and I knew he had been a veteran of that war. 我知道，他是那场战争的退伍老兵。
And we started talking about the Gulf War, 我们开始谈论海湾战争，
and he kind of lit up because it was something that he could talk about,that he felt proud of,that he had participated in. 他有点兴奋，因为这是他可以谈论的事情，是他感到自豪的事情，是他参与的事情。
And then I shifted the conversation to his feelings about the U.S. government. 然后，我把话题转移到，他对美国政府的看法上。
And I could see a light switch go off in his eyes. 我能看到，他的眼神，仿佛像是灭了一盏灯一样。
And he went cold. 随即，他就变得冷谈了。
And you could see the anger well up. 你可以看到，他的愤怒涌上心头。
And I thought at that point, "This guy for sure did it." 我当时心想，“肯定是这个人干的。”
[Sands] When Tim was identified, [桑兹] 当蒂姆的身份被确认后，
I just started delving into the far right. 我刚开始研究，极右翼的情况。
I went to Little Rock, Arkansas and did a lot of research there, 我去了阿肯色州的小石城，在那里做了很多研究， （鲍勃.桑兹，全国广播公司调查记者）
because back in those days, 因为，回到那段时期，
you had to go actually look at hard paper. 你必须去“故纸堆”中去找。
Turns out way back in 1983, 其实，早在1983年，
this virulent racist by the name of Richard Wayne Snell 这个恶毒的种族主义者，名叫理查德·韦恩·斯内尔
had decided that he wanted to blow up the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. 他就决定，炸毁俄克拉荷马城的“阿尔弗雷德·P·默拉联邦大厦”。 （该大厦1977年建成使用，纪念出自该城的联邦大法官阿尔弗雷德·P·默拉）
I was stunned to find out that the far-right movement wanted to blow up the Murrah Building. 当我发现，“极右翼运动”早就想要炸毁默拉大厦时，我惊呆了。
How come we never heard about that before? 我们以前，怎么没听说过?
第一次波运动 1983年
[man] Stay low! Get down! Whoo! [男人] 俯身前进！卧倒！哇！
[reporter 1] Pro-gun patriotism is becoming more and more popular among economically hard-pressed farmers. [记者1] “赞同持枪自由的爱国者”们，在经济困难的农民中，越来越受到欢迎。
[reporter 2] Traditionally strong, proud, independent farmers are losing their farms in record numbers. [记者2] 大量传统上强壮、自豪、独立的农民，正在史无前例地，丧失他们的农场。
We think as many as a million family farms were foreclosed on during the late '70s and early '80s. 我们认为，在70年代末和80年代初，有多达100万个家庭农场被取消赎回权。 (斯图尔特.莱特，《爱国者，政治和俄城爆炸案》一书的作者)
- [farmers chanting] No sale! - [Wright] There was anger against the federal government's exploitation of farmers. -[农民喊]卖不出! -[莱特]人们对联邦政府剥削农民的做法，感到愤怒。
Violence starts to occur in the heartland 暴力开始在中心地带发生， （斯蒂芬.琼斯，律师）
because they were desperate. 因为他们绝望了。
When Mr. Nixon was president, he encouraged farmers to plant fencerow to fencerow. 当尼克松担任总统时，他鼓励农民“汗滴禾下土”地去种植。
And they did. 他们就去种植了。
But then when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, 但当苏联入侵阿富汗时，
President Carter put an embargo on grain sales to the Soviet Union. 卡特总统禁止向苏联出售粮食。
And the result was agricultural depression. 结果是，农业一片萧条。
[Ronald Reagan] The federal government mustn't shirk its responsibility to undo some of the damage that it created. [罗纳德·里根] 联邦政府绝不能逃避自己的责任，消除自己造成的一些损害。
We're doing a great deal to help farmers. 我们正在做很多事情，来帮助农民。
But the federal government will not bail out every farmer hopelessly in debt. 但联邦政府不会救助，每一个深陷债务的农民。
So today I have vetoed this massive new bailout. 因此，今天我否决了这项大规模的“新救助计划”。
Ronald Reagan basically left the farmers to-- to, um, just go bankrupt. 罗纳德·里根基本上是让农民，让他们破产。
[farmers chanting] No sale! [农民喊] 卖不出！
[Wright] Far-right leaders saw a political opportunity. [莱特] 极右翼领导人看到了一个“政治契机”。
The first wave of the patriot movement was able to successfully mobilize farmers into this far-right movement, 第一波爱国运动，成功地将农民，动员到这场“极右翼运动”中，
and they were willing to take up arms,and some of them did. 他们愿意拿起武器，他们中有些人就这么做了。
[Noble] Everybody in the movement saw the land crisis,farm crisis, 运动中的每个人都看到了土地危机、农业危机， (凯瑞.诺贝尔，“圣约，圣剑和上帝之臂”组织的前成员)
as the government and major corporations putting farmers into a financial bind. 因为政府和主要的大公司，让农民陷入了财政困境。
Where the government is making war with the American people and selling us out. 在那里，政府与美国人民开战，并出卖我们。
I don't want to see our group or any group forced against their will into a con-- confrontation. 我不想看到，我们的组织或任何组织，违背自己的意愿，被迫陷入对抗。 （1983年的凯瑞.诺贝尔）
I'm a former extremist from a group known as CSA, 我以前是一个极端分子来自一个叫CSA的组织，
the Covenant, the Sword,and the Arm of the Lord in Northern Arkansas back in the '70s and '80s. 七八十年代，在阿肯色州北部的“圣约，圣剑和上帝之臂”。
[Noble] For me,it was like heaven on earth. [诺贝尔] 对我来说，那就像人间天堂。
The group was started originally by Jim Ellison to establish a community based upon the apocalypse. 该组织最初是由吉姆·埃里森发起的，目的是建立一个基于世界末日的社区。
[all] Oh, Hallelujah [众人]哦，哈利路亚
God began to deal with us about the economic judgment, collapse, and upheaval that was coming upon all the world. 上帝会和我们共同应对经济审判，崩溃，和即将降笼罩全世界的动荡。 （詹姆斯.“吉姆”艾利森，CSA组织领导人）
And especially on this country. 尤其是对这个国家。
[Noble] He said, "How are you gonna protect yourself when it collapses and bad people want what you have?" [诺贝尔] 他说:“当崩溃来临，恶人想要你的东西时，你要如何保护自己？”
[Noble] Basically the Bible says we have the right to use whatever the enemy uses, [诺贝尔] 从根本跟上讲，《圣经》上说我们有权使用，敌人使用的任何东西，
and the enemy, of course,is gonna have guns. 而敌人，当然，他们会有枪。 （1983年的凯瑞.诺贝尔）
Fire! 开枪！
[Noble] We had never talked about guns before. [诺贝尔] 我们以前从来没有谈过枪。
We had never talked about defense. 我们从来没有谈过防御。
CSA组织在训练
[Noble] Over the next 18 months, [诺贝尔] 在接下来的18个月里，
we started buying guns,buying military equipment, 我们开始买枪，买军事装备，
and we trained so well that a magazine in those days 我们训练得非常好，以至于当时的一本杂志
called us the number one civilian SWAT team in the United States. 称我们是美国最好的“平民特警队”。
The church kind of went to the background. 教会，在某种程度上，退居幕后。
Guns and warfare went to the forefront. 枪支和军火，成为人们关注的焦点。
The first plan that we talked about was the Oklahoma City Federal Building. 我们讨论的第一个计划，就是俄克拉荷马城联邦大厦。
[Noble] Sort of a quasi-member of the group, [诺贝尔] 作为这个团体的准成员，
Richard Wayne Snell,he lived in Oklahoma, 理查德·韦恩·斯内尔，他住在俄克拉荷马州，
was having trouble with the IRS. 与国税局那边出了点麻烦。
Him and Jim went and cased the Murrah Building. 他和吉姆去勘察了默拉大厦。
There was a lot of federal offices in that building,so it seemed like a good target of various agencies being in that building. 那栋楼里有很多联邦办公室，所以，看起来那栋楼里的各种机构，都是很好的目标。
So we had our munitions guy start to develop a rocket launcher, 所以，我们让我们的军需人员，开始研发火箭发射器，
and all the rockets would be shot at the same time toward the Murrah Building. 所有的火箭，将同时向默拉大厦发射。
One of the missiles exploded in the guy's hands that was building them,scarred his hands real bad. 其中一枚弹道武器，在制造它们的人手里爆炸了，手上伤痕累累。
So we took that as a sign that-- from God that we weren't-- 所以，我们认为，这是上帝给我们的一个信号...我们不该...
weren't supposed to do that particular plan. 我们不该这么做的。
[man] I was surprised as to the extent of violence of this group, [阿萨.哈钦森] 我对这个组织的暴力程度，感到惊讶， （前阿肯色州的美国检察官）
believing that they were going to cause the collapse of the United States of America and that they were going to help create that collapse. 相信他们会导致，美利坚合众国的崩溃，他们会帮助造成这种崩溃。
We actually learned that Richard Wayne Snell,a member of the CSA, 我们了解到，CSA的成员理查德.韦恩.斯内尔，
shot and killed a pawn shop owner in Texarkana, believing he was Jewish, 在特克萨卡纳枪杀了一名当铺老板，以为他是犹太人，
had killed Louis Bryant,a state police trooper. 后来又杀害了州警察路易斯·布莱恩特。
Murdered I believe that was in '84. 我记得，是在84年被谋杀的。
Got out of my van,and I shot Officer Bryant twice from the hip. 我下了车，朝布莱恩特警官臀部，开了两枪。
[reporter] The death of Trooper Louis Bryant was especially heartbreaking for Bill Clinton. [记者] 巡警路易斯·布莱恩特的死，尤其令比尔·克林顿心碎。 (当时的阿肯色州州长)
While the governor was visibly shaken over the slaying, he was also angry. 州长显然对杀戮感到震惊，他也很愤怒。
They don't have a right to go around carrying weapons and taking the law in their hands and acting as if they're somehow playing God. 他们没有权利携带武器，到处走动，把法律掌握在手中，好像他们在扮演上帝一样。
[Noble] Snell got the death penalty. [诺贝尔] 斯内尔被判死刑。
Snell's execution was to be on the night of April 19th, 1995, 斯内尔的死刑，将在1995年4月19日晚上执行，
which happened to be the day the Oklahoma City Federal Building got bombed. 那天恰好是，俄克拉荷马城联邦大楼，被炸的日子。
In the movement,April 19th, of course,is what's called Patriot's Day. 在这场运动中，4月19日当然被称为“爱国者日”。
First shot fired during the American Revolution. 美国独立战争打响的第一枪。
Very special for the whole movement. 对整个运动来说，非常特别。
Jim told me one time, he said,"I will go down in history in the second American Revolution." 吉姆有一次告诉我，他说，“我会在“第二次美国独立战争”中被载入史册。”
In '84, I told Jim, I said,"So you really want all this to start?" 1984年，我对吉姆说:“你真的想让这一切开始吗?”
He said, "Yes." 他说，“是的”。
I said, "So build a bomb,and we'll start the war." 我说:“那就造个炸弹，然后我们就开战。”
So they decided to go to find a good place to do the bombing. 所以，他们决定去找一个“合适地方”进行爆破。
We found the gay church. 我们找到了“同性恋教堂”。
We sorta had this stereotype image in our heads that there was just going to be this sexual orgy going on, which of course there wasn't. 我们当时在头脑中，近乎有这种刻板印象，怎么会有这种“性的放荡”,当然不行。
[Noble] I started seeing people lift their hands up and lift their eyes up, look up and start worshipping God. [诺贝尔] 我开始看到人们，举起他们的手，抬眼向上望，开始崇拜上帝。
And I identified with them. 我就认同了他们。
So instantly they ceased being homosexuals in my eyes and became Christians,and I couldn't kill Christians. 所以，他们在我眼中，不再是同性恋，而是成为了基督徒，我不能杀死基督徒。
（阿肯色州，CSA组织的庄园）
Later, I'm trying to talk to God. 之后，我试着和上帝说话。
And I said, "Lord,I want to-- I want to leave." 我说:“主啊，我想...我想离开了。”
You know,"I can't handle this no more." 你知道，“我再也受不了了”。
And the Lord spoke to me and said, "You can't leave." 上帝对我说:“你不能离开。”
（1985年四月19日，围捕CSA组织。）
[reporter] It looks like a battle zone. [记者]看起来像个战场。
Police and federal agents blockading the roads, 警察和联邦特工封锁了道路，
surrounding the heavily armed compound of a white supremacist sect calling itself 包围了一个全副武装的白人至上主义教派的大院，该教派自称为 （阿肯色州与密苏里州交界）
the Covenant, the Sword,and the Arm of the Lord. “圣约、圣剑和上帝之臂”。
They want to arrest the leader,James Ellison, on an illegal weapons charge. 他们想以非法持有武器的罪名，逮捕首领詹姆斯·埃里森。
[Clinton] The Covenant, the Sword, and the Arm of the Lord, they lived in log cabins. [克林顿] “圣约，圣剑，上帝之臂”组织，他们住在小木屋里。
Every log cabin had a trapdoor. 每个小木屋，都有一个活板门。
When you dropped through the trapdoor, you were in a foxhole with your weapon and ammunition ready. 当你穿过活板门时，你就会发现，在散兵坑里，准备好了武器和弹药。
Federal officials,they really wanted to storm this compound just like what later happened at Waco. 联邦干警们，他们真的很想冲进这个院子，就像后来在韦科发生的那样。
[Coulson] We knew that a frontal assault attack on that entity,a lot of people would die. [考尔森] 我们知道对那个大院的正面攻击，会造成很多人死亡。
And we didn't want that.I do not want that. 我们不希望那样。我不想那样。
My job is not to kill people.I know how to do it,but I don't want to. 我的工作不是杀人。我知道怎么做，但我不想做。 (丹尼.考尔森，前FBI特别探员)
And I didn't want to get into a shootout in the Ozarks. 我也不想在奥沙克风景度假区，进行枪战。
They had murder on their mind,and they were doing it for God. 他们心存杀机，而他们认为这么做，是为了上帝。
I found somebody I could talk to. 我找到了一个，我能说得上话的人。
Actually, he came to me.Kerry Noble. 实际上，是他来找我的。他就是，凯瑞.诺贝尔。
He said,"I want to make this plain. 他说:“我想把话说清楚。
We are not going to shoot first. “我们不会先开枪的。
We don't want to kill anybody here. “我们不想在这里杀任何人。
But if y'all shoot first,I've got a Huey helicopter. “但如果你们先开枪，我有一架休伊直升机。
It's gonna come up. “它会马上飞来。
It's got a .50-caliber machine gun, “它上面有一把点50口径的机枪，
and it's gonna start shooting holes in all of your buildings. “它会把你们所有的建筑，都打成千疮百孔。
And in 30 seconds,every man, woman, and child in your compound is gonna be dead." “在30秒内，你院子里的每个男人，女人和孩子都会死去。”
So for four days, I went back and forth talking to Jim,talking to Danny. 所以整整四天，我不停地在吉姆和丹尼之间，来回传话。
Finally on the fourth day,Jim got that revelation 最后，在第四天，吉姆得到了，来自上帝的启示，
that he could justify in his mind a higher purpose in surrendering. 他可以在他的头脑中，给出正确的理由，为了一个更高的目的而投降。
We get down there,and then Danny looks at Jim and says,"I'm placing you under arrest, 我们到了那里，然后丹尼看着吉姆说，“我要逮捕你，
but I'm not gonna handcuff you right now because I would not wanna be handcuffed in front of my men." “但我不会现在就给你戴上手铐，因为我同样不想在我的手下面前，被戴上手铐。”
I'm just bawling. 我只是在嚎啕大哭。
[reporter] The four-day siege ended as quietly as it began. [记者]为期四天的围攻平静地结束了，就像开始时一样。
The FBI got more than it bargained for. FBI得到了比预期更多的战果。
Other weapons found at the camp read like an arsenal checklist: 在营地发现的其他武器，读起来像武器库清单:
hand-grenade casings,blasting caps, 手雷外壳，爆破火药帽，
dynamite, and various handguns. 炸药和各种手枪。
[Coulson] We found cyanide in huge barrels. [考尔森] 我们在几个大水桶里，都发现了氰化物。
They were going to poison the water supplies. 他们打算在供水系统里投毒。
[reporter] In addition to the arrest of CSA leader James Ellison by federal and state authorities... [记者] 除了CSA领导人詹姆斯.艾利森被联邦和州当局逮捕之外...
[Noble] Jim ended up taking a plea bargain on the weapons charges. [诺贝尔] 吉姆最终接受了，针对“非法武器交易”指控的辩诉。
I got arrested,ended up plea-bargaining,five-year sentence. 我也被捕了，最后认罪了，被判了五年徒刑。
My dream for moving there 让我受驱使加入运动的梦想，
had turned into a nightmare. 成了一个噩梦。
But the movement continued to grow. 但这场运动，仍在继续发展。
[woman] The white power movement had come together every summer [凯思琳.贝鲁] 白人权力运动每年夏天都聚集在一起， （《把战火烧进国内》一书的作者）
at the Aryan Nations World Congress in Hayden Lake, Idaho. 在爱达荷州海登湖，举行所谓的“雅利安各族群世界大会”。
In 1983, the movement adopted a number of key strategies, 1983年，该运动采取了一系列关键策略，
and it decided to declare war on the federal government. 它决定向联邦政府宣战。
There is nothing more that the white Aryan can do but obey the commandment of Yahweh, his God,and separate himself. 白种雅利安人，除了服从他的上帝耶和华的诫命，和自己分离之外，别无他法。 （理查德.巴特勒，“雅利安各族群”组织领导人）
Blood, blood. 流血，流血。 （路易斯.比姆，三k党领导人）
The Founding Fathers shed their blood to give you this country. 开国先贤们用他们的鲜血，给了你们这个国家。
And if you want to hold on to it,you're gonna have to shed some of yours! 如果，你们想保住它，就得抛洒出一些你们的热血！
[Belew] They thought mainstream politics could never, ever deliver the kinds of social changes they wanted. [贝鲁]他们认为主流政治，永远不可能实现他们想要的，那种社会变革。
In the '80s,there is a major campaign of violence and crime carried out by this movement across the United States. 在20世纪80年代，这个运动在美国各地，发起了一场大规模的暴力和犯罪运动。
[man] Right turn! [男人] 向右转！
[Belew] Robbing of armored cars, bombings of gay theaters, assassinations. [贝鲁] 抢劫运钞车，同性恋剧院爆炸案，暗杀。
[reporter] Last night,Alan Berg was killed in ambush, arriving at his Denver home. [记者] 昨晚，艾伦·伯格在抵达丹佛的家中时遭到伏击身亡。 (脱口秀节目主持人)
Ten .45-caliber shell casings... 10个点45口径的弹壳...
[Belew] It's a spree. [贝鲁]这是一场狂欢。
By 1987, the government believes it has a case that all of this activity 到1987年，政府认为有证据表明，所有这些活动
represents an organized criminal conspiracy to overthrow the United States government. 都是有组织的犯罪阴谋，旨在推翻美国政府。
（阿肯色州，史密斯堡）
[reporter 1] Charges of sedition are filed against Reverend Butler and others. [记者1] 巴特勒牧师和其他人被指控犯有煽动叛乱罪。
[reporter 2] The government said it intends to prove that ten of the defendants plotted to overthrow the government by force. [记者2] 政府打算证明10名被告，密谋用武力推翻政府。
[Belew] Seditious conspiracy is a hard charge to prove. [贝鲁] 煽动阴谋，是一项很难证明的指控。
Prosecutors have to show that they intended to overthrow the U.S. government and had the capacity to do so. 检察官们必须证明，他们意图推翻美国政府，并且有能力这样做。
[reporter] What the FBI now sees across the country [记者] 联邦调查局现在在全国范围内看到的，
is a national network of neo-Nazis and white supremacist groups 是一个由新纳粹分子，和白人至上主义团体组成的，全国性网络，
whose goal is to purge this country of Blacks, Jews,and other minorities. 他们的目标是，清除这个国家的黑人、犹太人和其他少数民族。
One, I want to praise Yahweh's holy and precious name. 第一，我要赞美耶和华圣洁宝贵的名。
Two, I want to say to hell with the federal government. 第二，我想说，让联邦政府见鬼去吧。
[Belew] Louis Beam is really the intellectual architect of leaderless resistance. [贝鲁] 路易斯·比姆确实是“无领导抵抗运动”的智力型建筑师。
And I think this has been the biggest legacy of the white power movement 我认为，这是“白人权力运动”最大的遗产，
and the reason it's been with us since 1983. 也是它自1983年以来，一直伴随着我们的原因。
Activists can work violently in common cause without direct communication with leaders. 激进分子可以在没有与领导人直接沟通的情况下，为共同的事业进行暴力活动。
There are still leaders in leaderless resistance, 在“无领导抵抗运动”中，仍有领导者，
but they're not culpable because you can't trace them to the individual violent actions. 但他们不是有罪的，因为你不能把他们追溯到个人的暴力行为。
I understood that that was their intent. 我明白，那是他们的意图。
But I also knew that an Arkansas jury would have a hard time convicting these folks 但我也知道，阿肯色州的陪审团很难判定这些人
of-- of attempted overthrow of the United States government 企图推翻美国政府，
when they had no capacity,really, to do that. 因为,他们真的没有能力这么做。
That's why it's called a conspiracy. 这就是为什么，它被称为阴谋。 （史蒂文·斯奈德，前美国司法部长助理）
The thought was trying to overthrow the government. 这个想法是，试图去推翻政府。
Actually, they couldn't do it. 事实上，他们做不到。
But they surely tried. 但他们确实尝试过。
The government had really bet the farm on this trial. 政府把全部“赌注”，都押在这次审判上了。
They had used all of these other busts to kind of amass state's witnesses. 他们利用其他所有的抓捕行动，来收集州证人。
And it fails spectacularly. 但它的失败，也是引人注目的。
[reporter] It was the first serious setback in the federal government's war against suspected white supremacist groups. [记者] 这是联邦政府打击“白人至上主义”组织的第一次严重挫折。
Thirteen defendants were found not guilty of all charges, 13名被告在所有的起诉中，被判无罪，
which included murder, robbery, and conspiracy to overthrow the government. 其中包括谋杀、抢劫和阴谋推翻政府。
It was a tremendous defeat for the government. 这对政府来说，是一次巨大的失败。 （鲍勃.桑兹，全国广播公司调查记者）
And it totally enabled the far-right movement. 它完全推动了“极右翼运动”。
"We're free to go do whatever we want to do. “我们可以自由地去做，任何我们想做的事情。
They tried. They missed. 他们试过了。他们错过了。
We have got them by the short hairs." 我们抓住了，他们的把柄。”
[reporter]Sheila Beam passed out and had to be carried off by her husband, who now walks free. [记者] 希拉·比姆昏倒了，不得不被她的丈夫抱走，现在他已经自由了。
[Sands] Leaderless resistance was Louis Beam's idea, [桑兹] 无领导的反抗是路易斯·比姆的主张，
and he passed it along to everybody else in the movement. 他把这个想法，传递给了运动中的其他人。
The best way to go after the government was not to have this organized CSA compound 对付政府的最好办法，不是让这个CSA组织，变得有组织性，
but to have individuals... which led, of course,to the term "lone wolves." 而是让个人来干...当然，这就产生了“孤狼”这个词。
（第二波运动 1990年）
[reporter] Iraqi troops have crossed the border into Kuwait. [记者] 伊拉克军队越过边界，进入科威特。 （1990-1991年，第一次海湾战争）
[George H.W. Bush] As was the case in the 1930s, [H.W.老布什总统] 和20世纪30年代的情况一样，
we see in Saddam Hussein an aggressive dictator threatening his neighbors. 我们看到萨达姆·侯赛因，是一个威胁邻国的咄咄逼人的独裁者。
[Belew] In our history of extremist movements in the United States, [贝鲁] 在美国极端主义运动的历史上，
the most consistent correlation with spikes in membership is the aftermath of combat. 与成员激增最具有一致性的关联，就是战争的后果。
Louis Beam understood this veteran connection very, very well. 路易斯·比姆非常理解，这种退伍老兵之间的联系。
He did this very specifically, 他做得非常具体，
going to military bases, recruiting active-duty troops,recruiting veterans. 去军事基地，招募现役军人，招募退伍军人。
These groups move from, you know,the white robe and hood to camouflage fatigues, 这些团体组织的服装，从白色长袍和兜帽，变成迷彩服，
able to take in a new generation of veterans coming home. 为了能够接纳新一代退伍军人回家。
Most notably, Timothy McVeigh. 最著名的是蒂莫西·麦克维。
（纽约州，布法罗城）
[man] Tim McVeigh came from a family that was literally the salt of the earth. [卢.米歇尔] 蒂姆·麦克维来自一个名副其实的社会中坚家庭。 （《美国恐怖主义》一书的联名作者）
They had come over in the 19th century to help with the canal 他们在19世纪，来到这里，帮助修建运河， （伊利运河）
and earned enough money to buy some farmland. 赚了足够的钱，买下了一些农田。
You had the dawn of the automobile and Harrison Radiator, 曾几何时，这里是汽车工业，和哈里森散热器的“曙光”， （卢.米歇尔，《美国恐怖主义》一书的联名作者）
this sprawling plant where as many as 8,000 people worked at one time. 这个庞大的工厂，同时有多达8000人在工作。
And that was the world that Bill McVeigh was offering to his son. 这就是比尔·麦克维提供给他儿子的世界。
[Bill McVeigh] All four houses we lived in, [比尔.麦克维] 我们住过的四所房子， （蒂莫西.麦克维的父亲）
we always had a pretty good-sized garden. 我们一直有一个相当大的花园。
We had a pool here. 我们这里有个游泳池。
Sometimes in the summer,I'd come home from work, there'd be 15 kids in the pool. 有时在夏天，我下班回家，泳池里会有15个孩子。
Family right next door,the McDermotts, they had a daughter the same age as Jennifer,Mollie. 隔壁的麦克德莫特家，他们有个和詹妮弗一样大的女儿，莫丽。
They were good everyday neighbors. 他们是日常生活中的好邻居。
He would play with us,he would babysit us, he took us trick-or-treating. 他会和我们一起玩，他会照顾我们，他会带我们去“万圣节恶作剧游戏”。 （莫莉.麦克德莫特，蒂莫西.麦克维的儿时玩伴）
And so I've known his family forever. 所以，我认识他的家人很久了。
I'm sure that the divorce of his parents was hard. 我相信，他父母的离婚，让他很难过。
When the split occurred,he chose to stay with his dad. 离婚后，他选择和父亲住在一起。
[Herbeck] There was nobody that McVeigh loved or admired more than his grandfather,Ed McVeigh. [赫贝克]没有人比他的祖父埃德·麦克维更爱他、更崇拜他了。
He taught Tim McVeigh all about proper handling of guns, how to use guns. 他教蒂姆·麦克维正确对待枪支，如何使用枪支。
I think he equated guns with his beloved grandfather. 我认为，他把枪支，和他敬爱的祖父，等同起来了。
[man] Tim McVeigh's father worked at a G.M. plant for 30 years. [杰弗里.图宾] 蒂姆·麦克维的父亲在通用汽车工厂工作了30年。 （《土生土长》一束的作者）
Tim McVeigh's grandfather worked in the same plant for 30 years. 蒂姆·麦克维的祖父在同一家工厂工作了30年。
By the time McVeigh came along, that plant was shrinking almost to nonexistence. 到麦克维出现的时候，这个工厂已经萎缩到，几乎不存在了。
The industrial decline of the Buffalo area was a formative influence on McVeigh. 布法罗地区工业的衰落，对麦克维产生了影响。
At the same time,Terry Nichols was growing up on a small struggling farm in the thumb of Michigan. 与此同时，特里.尼科尔斯，在密歇根州最北的一个艰难度日的小农场长大。
And the farm crisis was making it harder and harder for farmers like him to survive. 农业危机，使得像他这样的农民，越来越难以生存。
So McVeigh and Nichols represent the crisis in American agriculture 所以麦克维和尼科尔斯几乎完美地代表了
and the crisis in American industry to an almost perfect degree. 美国农业危机，和美国的工业危机。
[McDermott] I don't know when the idea to go into the military really came... [麦克德莫特] 我不知道，参军的想法是什么时候产生的…
but the first time I even sensed Tim seeming different 但我第一次感觉到，蒂姆似乎有所不同的时候，
was after his time over during the Gulf War. 是在海湾战争结束后。
[Brokaw] The bombing in Iraq began 24 hours ago. [布罗考] 伊拉克的轰炸是24小时前开始的。
It is still going on. 燃烧还在继续。
[soldier] Watch your lane. [士兵] 小心的车道。
[Herbeck] At Fort Benning,Terry Nichols became one of McVeigh's best friends. [赫贝克] 在本宁堡，特里·尼科尔斯成了麦克维最好的朋友之一。
He was very influential on McVeigh's views of politics. 他对麦克维的政治观点，影响很大。
McVeigh became close to Michael Fortier, who would smoke dope when he was out on patrol. 麦克维与迈克尔·弗蒂耶走得很近，后者在巡逻时，还吸食毒品。
One of the very first experiences McVeigh had 麦克维参军后最早的经历之一
after joining the Army was these drill sergeants... 就是这些教技战术的教官...
they would scream things like,"Kill, kill, kill!" 他们会尖叫着，“杀，杀，杀!”
McVeigh became a very skilled sharpshooter in the Bradley military vehicle. 麦克维在“布莱德利装甲运兵车”里，成为了一名非常熟练的神枪手。
[Michel] In one instance,he spotted two Iraqi soldiers, brought them into his sights. [米歇尔] 有一次，他发现了两名伊拉克士兵，把他们带进了他的瞄准视线。
He said all he saw was a red mist. 他说，他只看到一团红雾。
He was proud of his kill.He got a Bronze Star for it. 他为自己的杀戮感到骄傲。他因此获得了“铜星勋章”。
But as this very short war progressed,he saw the carnage from all of the bombs that had been dropped. 但随着这场短暂的战争的进行，他看到了所有被投下的炸弹，造成的大屠杀。
[Michel] It was overkill to him. [米歇尔] 这对他来说，是太“滥杀无辜”了。
This unit is trying to talk the Iraqis into surrendering. 这支部队，正试图说服伊拉克人投降。 （科威特，迈克.博特切尔）
There are a group of Iraqis to the right carrying white flags. 右边是一群举着白旗的伊拉克人。
Over there, a large number of Iraqi tanks. 那边有大量伊拉克坦克。
[Boettcher] I've been in a lot of wars. [博特切尔]我参加过很多战争。
And wars and combat affect different people different ways. 战争和战斗，以不同的方式，影响着不同的人。
I think what goes on in a lot of people who leave war is that they had a purpose. 我认为，很多离开战场的人，都是有了目的的。
And the purpose in Desert Storm was to take back Kuwait and defeat Saddam Hussein's army. “沙漠风暴”的目的是，夺回科威特，打败萨达姆.侯赛因的军队。
And that was a huge purpose, a huge global purpose. 这是一个巨大的目标，一个巨大的全球目标。
Then you come back home, and... 然后你回到家，而且...
you might have trouble finding a job, and you start getting discouraged. 你可能很难找到工作，你开始气馁。
Tim McVeigh and myself,we both have that title, veteran. 蒂姆·麦克维和我，我们都有这个“头衔”，退伍老兵。
We spend four, five, six,seven, eight, nine,ten years of our life serving our nation. 我们用生命中的4年、5年、6年、7年、8年、9年、10年，来为国效力。
Then when you get out of the military, you come back to the United States, 当你离开军队，回到美国，
and everyone's telling you that you're wrong, 每个人都说你错了，
you shouldn't be killing people,we shouldn't be at war. 你不应该杀人，我们不应该打仗。
[crowd chanting] No blood for oil! No blood for oil! [人群呼喊] 不以血换石油!不用血换石油!
[Welch] My daughter, Julie, demonstrated with a lot of other students against the Gulf War. [韦尔奇] 我的女儿朱莉，和许多其他学生一起游行，反对海湾战争。
And the results of that war is actually the very thing that, uh, ended up causing her-- her death. 而这场战争的结果，实际上，正是导致她死亡的原因。
- [director] How do you mean? - Well, because Tim McVeigh -[导演] 什么意思? - 因为蒂姆·麦克维
served in the Gulf War,had PTSD. 参加过海湾战争，有创伤后应激障碍。
Those soldiers saw Iraqis get shot in the back and saw tanks that actually buried some Iraqi soldiers alive. 那些士兵看到，伊拉克人背后中枪，看到坦克，把一些伊拉克士兵活埋。
They saw all of that angry stuff and came back angry,angry young men. 他们看到了，所有那些让他们愤怒的东西，然后他们愤怒地回来了，愤怒的年轻人。
[Herbeck] After the war, McVeigh went to this Green Beret tryout. [赫贝克] 战争结束后，麦克维参加了“绿色贝雷帽”的选拔赛。
He failed in his tryout to become a Green Beret. 他在成为“绿色贝雷帽”的选拔中失败了。 （美国陆军特种部队的别称）
That was a demoralizing thing. 那是一件令人泄气的事。
I think if he had succeeded and been selected as a Green Beret, 我想，如果他成功了，被选为绿色贝雷帽，
he probably would have been a great killing machine for the U.S. government. 他可能会成为，美国政府的一个伟大的“杀人机器”。
[Michel] He comes home,and he has a nervous breakdown. [米歇尔]他回到家，精神崩溃了。
He went over to his grandfather's house in February a few months after he'd been out of the military 退役几个月后的2月，他去了祖父家，
in a pair of sweatpants and just socks, no shirt. 只穿了一条运动裤和袜子，没穿衬衫。
And Ed McVeigh opens the front door and says, "Tim, Timmy,what's going on here?" 艾德·麦克维打开前门说:“蒂姆，蒂米，这是怎么回事?”
He says,"I don't know, Grandpa." 他说:“我不知道，爷爷。”
McVeigh having PTSD,I think, helps to explain maybe the vulnerability,the fragility of his thinking. 麦克维患有创伤后应激障碍，我想，也许可以帮助解释他的脆弱，他思维的脆弱。 （斯图尔特.莱特，《爱国者，政治和俄城爆炸案》一书的作者）
He would live in his car,he would sleep in his car. 他会住在他的车里，睡在他的车里。
He would listen to right-wing radio... 他会听“右翼”的广播...
[Wright] ...and go from gun show to gun show. [赖特] …从一个枪展，转悠到另一个枪展。
He was operating as sort of a straw buyer. 他从事这一种“吸管代购”的业务。
He was buying guns for people who didn't want any kind of record or even name associated with buying guns. 他为那些，不想要任何与买枪有关的记录，甚至姓名的人买枪。
And he knew that these people were part of the insurgency. 他知道，这些人是叛乱分子的一部分。
They're not just selling weapons. 他们不只是卖武器。
They're selling ideology. 他们在兜售意识形态。
[on recording] I'm William Pierce, [在录音中] 我是威廉.皮尔斯，
and I'll be reading my book, The Turner Diaries, to you. 我将把我的书，《特纳日记》读给你听。
Listen carefully. 请仔细听。
"How it shamed us, "这让我们多么羞愧，
all that brave talk by patriots. 都是爱国者的豪言壮语。
'The government will never take my guns away.' ‘政府永远不会没收我的枪。’
And then nothing but meek submission when it happened." “当事情发生时，除了温顺地服从，什么都没有。”
[man] Timothy McVeigh used this book as a Bible. [迈克尔.理威奇] 蒂莫西·麦克维把这本书当作圣经。 （前联邦调查局驻布法罗城的特别探员）
Both The Turner Diaries and-- and McVeigh targeted a federal building that had federal law enforcement agents in it. 《特纳日记》和麦克维的目标，都是一幢联邦大楼，里面有联邦执法人员。
Both used a truck bomb. 两者都使用了汽车炸弹。
Both used a mixture of fuel oil and ammonium nitrate fertilizer. 两者都使用燃料油，和硝酸铵肥料的混合物。
The one that strikes me the most eerie is the fact that the bomb that explodes 最让我震惊的是《特纳日记》中爆炸
and blows up the FBI building in The Turner Diarieswent off at 9:15 a.m. 并炸毁联邦调查局办公大楼的炸弹，在上午9点15分爆炸。
The bomb in Oklahoma City went off at 9:02. 俄克拉荷马城的炸弹，于9点02分爆炸。
He's got The Turner Diaries rolling in the back of his head, 他用《特纳日记》作为他行动的指导方针，
his love of guns, 他热爱枪支，
and he's buying these videos about things like Ruby Ridge. 他还购买了“红宝石岭事件”之类的影像资料。
1992年 爱达荷州 红宝石岭
[reporter] Randy Weaver, a fugitive on a federal firearms charge, [记者] 兰迪·韦弗是一名受到联邦“非法拥有枪支罪名”指控的逃犯，
has been holed up in a cabin near Naples for more than a year. 他在那帕尔斯附近的一间小木屋里，躲藏了一年多。
Ruby Ridge came about because of shady dealings by the federal government. 红宝石岭事件的发生，是因为联邦政府怀疑，这里有不正当的武器交易。
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,and Firearms agents 烟酒火器局的探员们
were trying to recruit Randy Weaver 试图招募兰迪·韦弗
to be an informant on the militia movement 做“民兵运动”的线人，
by having another informant sell him a shotgun 方法是，让另一个“线人”卖给他一支枪管口径
that was a quarter of an inch shy of the legal limit. 比法定上限少四分之一英寸的霰弹枪。
That looks a lot like entrapment. 这看起来很像“钓鱼执法”。
[reporter] With the sudden appearance of military hardware, his one-man stand against the law [记者] 随着军事装备的突然出现，他一个人反对法律的立场
is suddenly taking on the appearance of a full-blown war. 突然呈现出，“全面战争”的样子。
[reporter 1] A federal agent has been shot and killed. [记者1]一名联邦探员被枪杀。
[reporter 2] Randy Weaver's 13-year-old son died during the initial shootout Friday. [记者2] 兰迪·韦弗13岁的儿子在周五的枪战中死亡。
His blood is on all your hands! You... 他的血，就是你们的罪过！你们…
Federal Marshals shot my son,Samuel, in the back and killed him. 联邦法警从背后射杀了我儿子塞缪尔。
He was running home to me. 他跑回家找我。
His last words were,"I'm coming, Dad." 他的最后一句话是:“我回来了，爸爸。”
The FBI adopted military rules of engagement at Ruby Ridge. 联邦调查局在红宝石岭，采取了军事交战规则。
The day after Sammy Weaver was shot... 萨米·韦弗被枪杀的第二天...
[Wright] ...a sniper fired at Randy. [赖特] …一名狙击手向兰迪开枪。
[Wright] The bullet went into the cabin and hit his wife, Vicki Weaver,in the head and killed her. 子弹射入小屋，击中了他的妻子维姬·韦弗的头部，杀死了她。
Later, an investigation was done, 后来，一项调查完成了，
and the Department of Justice settled for $3.1 million for unlawful death of Sammy Weaver and Vicki Weaver. 司法部以310万美元的代价了结了萨米·韦弗和维姬·韦弗的非法死亡。
[reporter] We just got an update from federal authorities. [记者] 我们刚从联邦当局得到最新消息。
Randy's in good health. 兰迪身体很好。
Unfortunately, Vicki is dead. 不幸的是，薇姬死了。
[Beam] This time the federals came for Randy Weaver. [比姆] 这次，联邦警察来找的是，兰迪·韦弗。
Next time,they may come for you. 下次，他们可能会来找你。
[Herbeck] After Ruby Ridge,McVeigh was on an odyssey to nowhere for about two years. [赫贝克]在“红宝石岭事件”之后，麦克维在大约两年的时间里，四处漂泊。
These ideas would just be turned over in his head again and again. 这些想法，会在他的脑海里，一遍又一遍地翻来覆去。
[Michel] His car was an old Chevy. [米歇尔] 他的车是一辆老雪佛兰。
He nicknamed it the Road Warrior. 他戏称它为“公路勇士”。
He reconnects with his Army buddies,Michael Fortier and Terry Nichols. 他与他的军队伙伴，迈克尔·弗提耶和特里·尼科尔斯，重新取得了联系。
But there's a lot of alone time. 但大部分时间，是独自一人度过的。
He's manufacturing his arguments of why he hates the government. 他在编造，使他仇恨政府的理由。
[Clinton] It may not be popular in West Virginia or Arkansas, [克林顿] 它可能在西弗吉尼亚州或阿肯色州不受欢迎，
where half the people have a hunting or a fishing license or both, 那里一半的人有狩猎或捕鱼执照，或者两者兼而有之，
but I think we ought to pass the Brady Bill and require a waiting period before people can get a handgun. 但我认为，我们应该通过《布雷迪法案》，要求人们在获得手枪之前，有一段“等待期”。
I felt that if it was ever gonna be done, 我觉得如果要做的话，
I was in the best position,because I grew up in Arkansas. 我本人的情况，就是对这一立场的最好说明，因为我在阿肯色州长大。
I had a .22 when I was 10. 我十岁的时候，有把点22口径手枪。
I had a .410 shotgun when I was 14. 我14岁的时候，就有一支点410口径的散弹枪。
I grew up in the culture. 我在这种文化中长大。
[Limbaugh] There's only one thing you need to know. [林堡] 你只需要知道一件事。
The Democrats want to do away with the Second Amendment. 民主党人想废除宪法第二修正案。
They want to end up registering every gun and its owner in this country. 他们想要给这个国家的每把枪，及其拥有者，进行登记。
And their ultimate objective is to see to it that nobody has any. 他们的最终目标是，确保没有人有（拥有枪支的权利）。
1993年，德克萨斯州，韦科
[Wright] Some people forget that Tim McVeigh was at Waco. [赖特] 有些人忘记了，蒂姆·麦克维当时也在韦科。
He was handing out anti-government pamphlets. 他在分发反政府小册子。
He was carrying copies of The Turner Diaries. 他手里拿着几本《特纳日记》。
He was talking to people during the standoff. 他在（韦科）“对峙期间”，跟人谈话。
If you're a true Christian,and you believe the truth, and you know the truth,the truth will set you free. 如果你是一个真正的基督徒，你要相信真理，你要了解真理，真理会让你自由。
[Ricks] A group called the Branch Davidians,it was an offshoot of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. [里克斯]一个叫“大卫教派”的团体，是“基督复临安息日会”的一个分支。 （鲍勃.里克斯，前联邦调查局特别探员）
About 100 people headed up by a gentleman by the name of David Koresh. 大约有100人，由一位名叫大卫·考雷什的先生带队。
He predicted the end of the world was near, 他预言世界末日即将来临，
that he was the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, 他是耶稣基督的第二次降临，
the apocalypse was going to happen, 世界末日即将来临，
and it was going to start there with a battle on the plains of Texas. 它将从德克萨斯平原上的一场战斗开始。
- [reporter] You have guns? - It makes nobody's business whether we have a gun or not at this place. -[记者]你有枪? -我们在这里有没有枪跟谁都没关系。
[Ricks] The ATF had information that there were automatic weapons, [里克斯]烟酒、火器与爆炸物管理局有情报说，那里有自动武器，
they had grenades there.And as a result, 他们有手榴弹。因此，
they were gonna launch an attack on the Branch Davidian compound. 他们打算对大卫教派的院落发动袭击。
Get my battery, John.Get my battery behind the bus. 把我的电池拿来，约翰。把我的电池放在巴士后面。
The ATF wanted to conduct a paramilitary raid. 烟酒、武器炸药管理局想要进行一次准军事突袭。
They had multiple opportunities to arrest David Koresh. 他们有很多机会逮捕大卫·考雷什。 （斯图尔特.莱利，《在韦科发生的“大决战”》一书的作者）
He jogged up and down Double EE Ranch Road right in front of these surveillance houses. 他在双EE牧场路慢跑，就在这些监控室前面。
They could've grabbed him then. 他们当时可以抓住他的。
They didn't want to arrest him. 他们不想逮捕他。
They wanted a big show. 他们想要一场“好戏”。
And it backfired on them. 结果，适得其反。
The ATF fired the first shot, 烟酒火器管理局开了第一枪
shooting the dogs that were outside guarding the property. 射杀了外面守着房子的狗。
And then it erupted into gunfire. 然后就爆发出了枪声。
[Ricks] ATF was immediately pinned down. [里克斯] ATF警员立即被压制住了。
[Ricks] Four of their agents were killed. [里克斯] 他们的四名特工被杀了。
Sixteen were wounded. 16人受伤。
Five Davidians were killed that day. 那天有五名大卫教徒被杀。
The Attorney General says that FBI should take over and try to get this thing resolved. 司法部长表示，联邦调查局应该接手，并试图解决这个问题。
I was dispatched down there to do the press conferences. 我是被派去参加新闻发布会的。
We're dealing with people who are very committed to what they're doing. 我们面对的，是那些对自己所做的事情“非常投入”的人。
[Ricks] And we ended up spending 51 days there. [里克斯]我们最终，在那里呆了51天。
[Wright] I actually came here about three weeks into the standoff. [莱特] 实际上，我是在对峙三周后来到这里的。
They wouldn't let anybody closer than, say, maybe a mile from here.They had cordoned it off. 他们不让任何人靠近，比如说，离这里一英里。他们用警戒线，把它封锁了。
A lot of the people who showed up were far-right patriots. 很多来这里的人，都是极右翼爱国者。
They weren't aligned with, say, Davidian religious beliefs or sentiments. 比如，他们与大卫派的宗教信仰或情感不一致。
You have attempted to cover up the FBI and ATF crimes here. 你在试图掩盖FBI和ATF的罪行。 （路易斯.比姆，三K党领袖）
[Wright] It was already taking place, [莱特]韦科事件的发生，
that co-optation of Waco for the far-right patriot movement. “极右翼爱国者运动”把韦科的人视为“志同道合”。
[Belew] Waco is not a white power community. [贝鲁] 韦科不是一个白人掌权的社区。
It is a multiracial community. 这是一个多种族的社区。
The white power movement doesn't care about that very much. “白人权力运动”不太关心这一点。
And the compound itself, 而那所庄园本身，
because this goes on for so long, 因为这种情况持续了很长时间，
becomes a site where white power activists can organize and talk to each other. 成为一个白人权力活动家，可以进行组织和相互交谈的场所。
McVeigh travels to the Waco site. 麦克维前往韦科现场。
Just, uh...I just arrived today. 只是,呃...我今天刚到。 （1993年3月16日，下午2：26）
Somebody told me a lot of people would be scared to put something on like this. 有人告诉我，很多人会害怕穿戴成这样。
[Wright] Tim said to me, [莱特] 蒂姆对我说，
"The government is at war with us." “政府正在与我们交战。”
He kept talking about this war. 他一直在谈论这场“战争”。
And I wasn't even privy to--to this narrative or story. 我甚至都不被知道，这个...这个故事的讲述。
So I ask him to explain it to me. 所以，我请他给我讲释一下。
And he tells me that in the early '80s,the Reagan administration pushes for a military role in drug enforcement. 他告诉我，在80年代早期，里根政府推动军队参与禁毒执法行动。
[Reagan] We waged a good fight. [里根] 我们打了一场漂亮的仗。
The military forces have dramatically reduced drug use by 67 percent. （美国）军队介入，已经大幅减少了67%的毒品使用。
[Wright] In order for civilian law enforcement to get military support, [莱特] 为了让民事执法部门得到军事支持，
they would have to show what's called a drug nexus at Waco. 他们必须证明，“韦科事件”与有所谓的毒品有联系。
The ATF manufactured a drug nexus that-- that wasn't there. 烟酒枪管局伪造了一个根本...根本不存在的毒品关系。
They claimed that Branch Davidians had a meth lab. 他们声称，大卫教派有个“冰毒”实验室。
All those helicopters were part of the military support. 所有这些直升机，都是军事支援的一部分。
[Bryant Gumbel] It's day 33 of that cult standoff with federal authorities near Waco... [布莱恩特.甘布尔] 这是韦科附近邪教组织，与联邦当局对峙的第33天… （美国著名的电视节目主持人和记者，曾主持《今日秀》等节目）
[reporter 1] Discussions about a surrender have slowed. [记者1]关于投降的讨论，已经放缓。
[reporter 2] All day long,reinforcements were brought in from as far away as Fort Hood. [记者2] 一整天，援军都从遥远的胡德堡赶来。
[Wright] I think the ATF saw a political opportunity [赖特]我认为，烟酒枪爆管理局在比尔·克林顿的选举中，
in the election of Bill Clinton,who ran on gun control, 看到了一个政治机会，克林顿主张“枪支管制”，
to expand its operation and expand its reputation. 烟酒枪管局可以扩大其业务，增加赞誉。
[Clinton] I was really torn by Waco. [克林顿] “韦科惨案”真的让我很伤心。
The FBI kept pushing for action. 联邦调查局一直在敦促采取行动。
And they acted like this would be,you know,not too difficult to do. 他们表现得好像，“这其实并不难做到”。
And I got it, but I mean,the truth was they were frustrated by being defied. 我明白了，但事实是，他们因为被蔑视，而感到“灰头土脸”。
Sometimes the right strategy is to wait. 有时候，正确的策略是， 等待。
And I told them the story of what we did with the Covenant, the Sword,and the Arm of the Lord in Arkansas. 我给他们讲了，我们以前在阿肯色州对付“圣约、圣剑和上帝之臂”组织做的事。
But they countered, 但他们反驳我道，
and this is what really mattered to Janet Reno, 这对珍妮特·雷诺来说，才是最重要的， （担任克林顿政府8年的女司法部长）
with the prospect that Koresh and his inner circle were abusing women and children. 因为考雷什和他的核心成员，可能会虐待妇女和儿童。
Finally, I told them they should go look at the record of what we did, 最后，我告诉他们，他们应该去看看我们所做的记录，
but I would leave the decision up to them, 但我会让他们，自己做决定，
and if they decided to do it,I would support them. 如果他们决定这么做，我会支持他们。
In Waco, Texas,the FBI has moved to a new and more active stage. 在德克萨斯州韦科，联邦调查局已经进入了一个新的、更活跃的阶段。
An armored vehicle began punching holes. 一辆装甲车开始装围墙，打开突破口。
They have been filling the compound with tear gas. 他们一直在用催泪瓦斯，来弥漫整个庄园。
[Ricks] A little bit after noon, [里克斯] 过了中午，
they ended up setting fire to the entire compound. 他们最后放火，烧了整个庄园。
[reporter] Here's another angle. [记者] 这是另一个角度。
You can see the black smoke behind us. This is horrible. 你可以看到我们身后的黑烟。这太可怕了。
[Ricks] And I was told by headquarters I had to go back and do a final press conference. [里克斯]总部告诉我，我必须回去，开一个最后的新闻发布会。
I said,"What am I supposed to say? There's nobody left." 我说:“我该说什么？没有人能活下来了。”
I have been asked to read a statement from the director of the FBI. 我被要求，宣读一份联邦调查局局长的声明。
[Ricks] I was trying to comfort people, [里克斯] 我试着安慰人们，
but to see it all collapse was just overwhelming. 但看到这一切都毁了，我实在受不了。
超过80个人死在“韦科惨案”中，其中有25个儿童。
[Michel] McVeigh is standing in the parlor of this old farmhouse that James Nichols owns, [迈克尔] 麦克维站在詹姆斯·尼科尔斯拥有的老旧农舍的客厅里，
watching this live image of Waco burning, 看着韦科大火的现场画面，
and tears are running down his eyes, 泪水顺着他的眼睛，流了下来，
and he's also thinking about his experience in the U.S. Army. 他也在思考，他曾在美国陆军的经历。
[Herbeck] It really bothered McVeigh [赫贝克] 让麦克维感到困扰的是，
that the same Bradley fighting vehicles that he had fought in in the Persian War 他在“波斯湾战争”中，使用的布拉德利战车，
were being used against the people at Waco. 现在，却被用来对付在韦科的人们。
That was the turning point for McVeigh. 那是麦克维，人生的转折点。
He said in that very moment he decided he was going to commit an act of terrorism. 他说，就在那一刻，他决定实施， 恐怖主义行动。
[Wright] After Ruby Ridge and Waco, [莱特] 继“红宝石岭事件”和“韦科事件”后，
we had this mass mobilization of militias. 我们就发现，涌起了大批“民兵组织”。
[Wright] This thing just really explodes. [赖特] 这东西真的是爆炸了。
The critical issue is guns. 关键问题是， 枪支。
He became obsessed with the idea the Democratic Party and Bill Clinton were scheming to take away Americans' right to guns. 他鬼迷心窍地认为，民主党和比尔·克林顿，正密谋剥夺，美国人拥有枪支的权利。
[Clinton] McVeigh told a lot of people that he was just furious at me. [克林顿] 麦克维告诉很多人，他只是对我很愤怒。
He really hated the Assault Weapons Ban. 他真的很抵触，针对攻击性武器禁令。 （1994年九月13日，签署《攻击性武器禁令》）
It was the Assault Weapons Ban, 正式针对攻击性武器的禁令，
just as much as Waco and Ruby Ridge, 就像“韦科事件”和“红宝石岭事件”一样， （杰弗里.图宾，《土生土长》一书的作者）
that motivated McVeigh to bomb the Murrah Building. 促使麦克维，炸毁“莫拉大厦”。
We will finally ban these assault weapons from our street that have no purpose other than to kill. 我们最终，将在我们的街道上，禁用这些攻击性武器。它们除了杀人，别无一用。
[Michel] McVeigh charged from one end of the country to the other. [迈克尔] 麦克维从这个国家的一头，冲到另一头。
Finally decided to build the bomb after months of buying 50-pound bags of ammonium nitrate 几个月来，他在中西部各地的“除草和育种”商店里，陆续买了50磅一袋的硝酸铵，
at weed-and-seed stores across the Midwest... 最终决定制造炸弹...
buying racing-car fuel down in Texas. 在德克萨斯州，购买供赛车用的高效燃料。
[Michel] He ping-ponged back and forth from Kingman, Arizona, [米歇尔]他在亚利桑那州的金曼来回穿梭，
to Decker, Michigan,to Buffalo, New York. 密歇根州的德克尔，和纽约州的布法罗之间。
（尼亚加拉大瀑布）
（特里.尼科尔斯和蒂姆.麦克维）
[Herbeck] McVeigh told us, [赫贝克] 麦克维告诉我们，
"Nichols and Fortier helped me." “尼科尔斯和弗提耶帮了我。”
He said,"I was the driving force behind all this. 他说:“我是这一切的幕后推手。
It was my plan. It was my crime." 这是我的计划。这是我的罪过。”
He came up with an action plan. 他想出了一个行动计划。
[Michel] In Kansas, at the lake, 在堪萨斯州，在那个湖边，
the day before the bombing, 爆炸的前一天，
with some coercion to get Terry Nichols there, 他们强迫特里·尼科尔斯去那里，
they build the bomb. 他们一起制造了炸弹。
[Herbeck] McVeigh said Nichols got cold feet and McVeigh threatened him. [赫贝克] 麦克维说，尼科尔斯临阵退缩了，麦克维威胁了他。
That's why he went along with it. 所以，他才同意了。
1995年四月19日
[Michel] April 19th,he gets back on the interstate,traveling alone. [米歇尔] 4月19日，他回到州际公路，独自旅行。
[Koernke] The enemy has many resources and assets at their disposal. [科尔内克] 敌人有许多可供支配的资源和资产。
The best one we have here is you. 最好的资产就是， 你。
[Herbeck] McVeigh told us that it was like the Death Star in Star Wars. [赫贝克] 麦克维告诉我们，这就像《星球大战》中的死星。
He said, "There were all kinds of people in that Death Star who were just like secretaries and weren't leaders. 他说:“死星里有各种各样的人，他们就像秘书一样，不是领导。
They were killed too. 他们也被杀了。
But people all applauded when the Death Star blew up." 但当死星爆炸时，人们都鼓掌了。”
He said, "Yes,innocent people had to die,but that's the way it goes." 他说:“是的，无辜的人不得不死去，但事情就是这样。”
He calls them collateral damage. 他称之为， 附带伤害。 （附带伤害：军事行动中对非预期目标造成的伤害，特指平民伤亡。）
[man] I walked over and introduced myself. [史蒂芬.琼斯] 我走过去做了自我介绍。
I said, "Mr. McVeigh, 我说:“麦克维先生，
I've been appointed to represent you." 我被任命为你的诉讼代理人。”
And I think I said,"I'm from Enid, Oklahoma." 我想，我说了，“我来自俄克拉何马州的伊尼德。”
He shook my hand and said,"I heard you were coming." 他握着我的手说:“我听说了，你要来。”
He explained very candidly why he did what he was accused of. 他非常坦率地解释了，他为什么要做“被指控”的事。
He exhibited some pride in that he had managed to carry it off. 他为自己成功地完成了这件事，而显得有些骄傲。
He wanted a defense based on necessity. 他是出于“必要性”，才想要一个辩护律师。
Said, "I had to do it because they were going to kill other American citizens. 他说:“我必须这么做，因为他们要杀害其他美国公民。
They had to be taught a lesson." 必须给他们一个教训。”
And I said, "Well, Tim...tell me why it was necessary to kill children under the age of six." 我说:“嗯，蒂姆...请告诉我，为什么必须杀害六岁以下的孩子?”
He said, "Well,there were children at Waco." 他说，“嗯，韦科惨案里也有孩子。”
And I said,"Well, that may be true, but that's not an explanation of the necessity. 我说，“好吧，这可能是真的，但这并不能解释“必要性”。
What that is is revenge." 这就是在报复。”
After that wouldn't go anywhere, what I was trying to do was to raise a reasonable doubt. 在那之后，就没什么进展了，我想要做的，就是提出“合理怀疑”。 （对于被告罪行有疑问，经过公正彻底的考虑后产生或保留的怀疑，不管有无证据。）
We could argue to the jury the government hasn't proven it. 我们可以向陪审团辩称，政府没有“证明这一点”。
I'm hopeful that no one will embarrass the state of Oklahoma 我希望，没有人会为难俄克拉何马州政府，
by doing anything to any party in this case which would turn this into a three-ring circus. 在这个案件中，对任何一方做任何事情，让这件事，变成一场，“三环圈”。 （史蒂芬.琼斯，1995年五月）
It couldn't be seen as a show trial. 这不能被看作，是一场“政治审判”。 （一种为了政治目的而进行的公开审判）
It had to be seen as lawyers vigorously representing him. 这必须被看作是，律师们“积极地”替他伸张权利。
My opposite number was Merrick Garland. 我的诉讼对手，就是梅里克·加兰。 （副总检察长助理）
He's been detained without bond. 他已被拘留，不得保释。
[Toobin] It's important to recognize how Merrick Garland structured [图宾] 重要的是要认识到梅里克·加兰德
the criminal investigation and trial of McVeigh. 是如何组织对麦克维的刑事调查和审判的。
...testified that the cause of the explosion ...已经被证实，引起爆炸的原因，
at the Murrah Building was a bomb that was placed inside a Ryder Truck. 是一枚放置在一辆停靠在莫拉大楼旁，莱德物流的卡车里的炸弹。 （梅里克.加兰德，副总检察长助理）
He had a prosecutor's view in the sense that he wanted to keep the trial narrow and focused and limited, 他有一个检察官的观点，他想把审判范围缩小，重点集中， （杰弗里.图宾，《土生土长》一书的作者）
uh, to what was needed to make the case against first McVeigh and then Nichols. 限制在只对麦克维和尼科尔斯的指控上。
[reporter] Can you give us any estimate of how many people you still expect to bring additional charges against in this case? [记者] 您能否估计一下，在这个案件中，您还会对多少人提出额外的指控?
No, I'm sorry.I really have to limit myself to what happened in the hearing today. 不，对不起。我得把我的注意力，集中在今天听证会上，发生的事情上。
[man] Merrick always kind of kept his finger on the pulse of the case. [艾坦.戈尔曼] 梅里克总是能把握住案子的脉搏。 （前美国司法部长助理）
You know, I'm not religious, 你知道，我不信仰宗教，
but I did feel during that period of time like, "Oh, this is why I'm here." 但在那段时间里，我确实觉得，“哦，这就是我在这里的原因。”
I mean, I really felt like I was doing something that mattered and that was worth doing. 我是说，我真的觉得，我在做一件重要的事，一件值得做的事。
[woman] On April 19th, 1995,the bomb went off, [贝丝.威尔金斯] 1995年4月19日，炸弹爆炸了， （前美国检察官助理）
I was in the office. 我当时就在办公室。
DOJ wanted to show that the country could give a fair trial and due process to these individuals. 司法部想要表明，这个国家，可以给这些人，一个公平的审判，和正当的程序。
This was right after the O.J. Simpson case, where there was such fanfare and media attention. 这是在“OJ·辛普森案”之后，那案子引起如此的轰动和媒体关注。
Merrick wanted this to be all about the crime that had occurred and holding the individuals accountable. 梅里克希望这一切都是关于“已经发生”的罪行，并追究当事人的责任。
（致大陪审团的起诉书 第一项罪名：阴谋使用大规模杀伤性武器。）
[director] In the original indictment itself, it did say [导演]在最初的起诉书中，
Tim McVeigh, Terry Nichols,and "others unknown." 确实提到了蒂姆·麦克维、特里·尼科尔斯和“其他不知名人士”。
[Goelman] Why am I so confident we got--? [戈尔曼] 为什么我这么有信心...？
[director] Why are you so confident? [导演] 你怎么这么有信心？
Um, the thoroughness of the investigation. 嗯，要把调查进行到底。
FBI interviewed so many people that we could find. 联邦调查局询问了很多，我们能找到的人。
If you wanted to, you know,find somebody who said that, 如果你想，你知道，找到这样的人，
you know,Madonna did the bombing, 就好比，假如麦当娜参与了爆炸案，
you could find someone like that. 你甚至可以找到像她这样的人。
Both Nichols and McVeigh had big defense teams at taxpayer expense. 尼科尔斯和麦克维都用纳税人的钱，组建了庞大的辩护团队。
And I think their strategies differed. 我认为，他们的策略不同。
Stephen Jones had this whole public relations strategy, 斯蒂芬·琼斯有一套完整的公共关系策略，
where he, you know,traveled around the world to try to find these "others unknown." 他周游世界，试图找到这些“其他未知的人”。
[Jones] To say that there were others unknown was true. [琼斯] 要说还有其他未知的（被告），这是真的。
We were accused of being conspiracy theorists, 我们被指责为“阴谋论者”，
but it was the government that alleged there was a conspiracy. 但这是政府，在声称存在阴谋。
We were just simply arguing over how large was the conspiracy and who was there. 我们只是在争论，这个阴谋有多大，谁在那里（策划）。
Tim wanted to be seen as,"This was the perfect mission. 蒂姆想让别人觉得，“这是一次完美的任务。
The building was destroyed, people were killed, “大楼被毁了，人们被杀了，
there will be a revolution. “就会发生革命了。
I have set the revolution in motion. “我（麦克维），已经发动了一场革命。
Me. No one else, me. Me, myself, and I." “是我。没有别人，只有我。除了我自己，还就是我。”
It took probably about... 就这样，大概过了...
seven or eight days for me to start realizing that he was lying. 过了七八天后，我才意识到，他在撒谎。
Repeatedly. 不断地在撒谎。
Probably the first one, I said, "Tim, you've told me that no one else is involved. 可能是第一次，我说，“蒂姆，你告诉过我，没有其他人参与。
So why is the government talking to Michael and Lori Fortier? 那政府为什么要找迈克尔和洛莉·弗提耶谈话?
What do they know 他们知道什么
that we don't know?" 是我们不知道的？”
He didn't want to reveal who others were. 他不想透露其他人是谁。
He didn't want to solve the mystery. 他不想解开这个谜团。
[Sanders] It was actually my husband, Glenn,who started asking questions. [桑德斯] 实际上，是我丈夫格伦，开始提出疑问的。
It's consumed our life. 这耗尽我们的生命。 （被害者的祖父，艾伦.维尔布恩）
Our life took a 180-degree turn that day. 那天，使得我们的生活，发生了180度大转弯。
And it probably will never be the same again. 而且，很可能再也不会和以前一样了。
[Sanders] After the bombing,I was so broken. [凯西.桑德斯] 爆炸案之后，我很崩溃。
For the first few weeks, I probably sat in a chair and cried. 在最初的几个星期里，我可能坐在椅子上哭。
But when I got out of the chair,we had a dinner at our home for the families that had lost their children. 但当我能够从椅子上站起来时，我们在家里，为失去孩子的家庭，举行了晚餐聚会。
[Sanders] The saddest of times. [桑德斯] 这是最悲伤的时刻。
You get 19 families that lost their children. 19个家庭，失去了他们的孩子。
One of the young mothers said when she dropped her boy off that morning, 其中一位年轻的母亲说，那天早上她送完儿子，回家时，
that she had seen the bomb squad downtown. 她甚至在市中心，看到了拆弹小组。
We're going, "How do you know it was the bomb squad?" 我们会问，“你怎么知道，那是拆弹小组？”
Finally, very indignantly, 最后，我非常气愤地说，
she said they had big blue letters. 她说，他们上面有蓝色的大写字母。
Then we found a newspaper article from The Panola Watchman. 然后，我们在报纸上找到了一篇，来自《帕诺拉守望者》的文章。
（我记得看见了“拆弹小组”）
It was an interview about this whole office full of people. 这是关于整个办公室的人的采访。
They had been watching the bomb squad in the alleyway. 他们一直在巷子里，监视着拆弹小组。
The next day my husband, Glenn,goes to the fire station. 第二天，我丈夫格伦去了消防站。
The fire chief said,"Oh, no, sir, we had no idea." 消防队长说:“哦，不，先生，我们一点儿都不知道。”
As my husband's leaving,the dispatcher there, he says, 我丈夫离开的时候，那里的调度员说，
"I'm not going to lie for anybody." “我不会为任何人撒谎。”
He said, "We got a memo in this office last week to be on high terrorist alert." 他说:“我们上周收到了一份备忘录，要求对恐怖分子，保持高度警惕。”
[reporter] The fire department received a call from the FBI five days before the bombing,warning that [记者] 在爆炸发生五天前，消防部门接到了联邦调查局的电话，警告说，
"there were some people coming through town they should be on the lookout for." “有一些人经过市区，他们应该对此多加注意。”
[Sanders] When the fire chief is confronted with this information, he said, [桑德斯]当消防队长面对这些信息时，他说，
"You know what,I made a mistake. It was our bomb squad truck down there." “你知道吗，我犯了一个错误。那是我们拆弹小组的卡车。”
[reporter] The ATF director told reporters they had taken some precaution for the second anniversary of the siege in Waco. [记者] ATF局长告诉记者，他们在韦科遇袭两周年之际采取了一些预防措施。
I was very concerned about that. 我对此非常担心。 (烟酒，武器炸药管理局局长，约翰.马戈)
We did some things here in headquarters and in all of our field offices throughout the country 我们在总部和全国各地的办事处做了一些事情，
to try to be more observant.But it was primarily-- 试图更加观察敏锐。但它主要是...
We didn't anticipate something like this. 我们没有预料到这样的事情。
We were thinking about,you know, demonstrations and things like that. 我们那时只是在考虑，你懂的，那种示威之类的事情。
I think, yeah,we should have known that there was some danger in the building that day 我认为，是的，我们本就应该知道，那天的大楼里，会有某种危险，
due to the fact that April 19th 因为4月19日，
is such a special day to the right wing. 对“右翼分子”来说，是一个特殊的日子。
So you're not somebody that could be characterized as a conspiracy-theory person, 所以，你不是那种，被人描述为“持阴谋论怀疑者”的人，
in the sense that you feel the federal government was, 在某种意义上，你是否认为联邦政府
in some way,part of this explosion? 或多或少地，是这次爆炸案的一部分？
No. Not at all. 不，完全不是。
[Sanders] Glenn and I had so many questions. [桑德斯] 格伦和我有很多疑问。
After the bombing,they started the biggest manhunt in American history for John Doe Number 2. 爆炸发生后，他们开始了美国历史上，最大规模的搜捕“二号无名氏”的行动。
And then they called it off. 然而接着，他们就取消了行动。
[Jones] The government originally described two men. [琼斯] 政府最初描述的是两个人。
They had the sketches of them. 他们有他们的模拟画像。
And there were numerous credible people in downtown Oklahoma City just before the bombing 在爆炸发生前的俄克拉荷马市中心，有很多可靠的人，
that claimed that they saw McVeigh and someone else. 声称他们看到过麦克维和其他人。
The government then,about 30 days later, said there isn't any John Doe 2.It was a mistake. 大约30天后，政府说，没有什么“无名氏”。这是个错误。
We had learned enough by then that we knew there was something wrong. 到那时，我们已经了解了足够多的情况，知道有些事情不对头。
Twenty-two eyewitnesses told the FBI they saw McVeigh downtown the morning of the bombing, 22名目击者告诉联邦调查局，他们在爆炸发生的那天早上，看到麦克维在市中心，
and they all saw him with someone else. 他们都看到，他和另一个人在一起。
This is Michael Moroz's testimony about McVeigh pulling up at Johnny's Tire Shop. 这是迈克尔.莫罗兹关于麦克维在约翰尼轮胎店停车的证词。
[Moroz] There was definitely a second person. [莫罗兹] 肯定有第二个人。
He had dark hair,maybe a dark complexion. 他有一头黑发，可能肤色也很黑。 （目击者，迈克尔.莫罗兹）
He wasn't fair-skinned.I'm fair-skinned. 他不是白皙的皮肤。我是白皮肤的。
I can tell the difference between fair and dark skin. 我能分辨出，白皙皮肤和深色皮肤的区别。
[Sanders] They brought him in. [桑德斯]他们把他带进来了。
He picks McVeigh out of the lineup, 他把麦克维从名单中挑了出来，
and he tells them there was the man in the ball cap in the passenger side of the truck. 告诉调查人员，那个戴棒球帽的人，坐在卡车的副驾驶座上。
I did get a lot of flak from the families and survivors when I wanted to find out about the others involved. 当我想调查其他人卷入此案时，我确实遭到，来自家属和幸存者的很多抨击。
To try and point the blame at somebody else besides the people who parked the truck out front is irresponsible. 除了把卡车停在（大厦）门口的人，还试图找其他人来担责，这是不可靠的（推论）。 （莎朗.科因，14个月的婴儿杰西.瑞伊的母亲）
There are unanswered questions that we want answers to. 我们想知道一些，未解之谜的答案。
I know that Melissa and Sharon have expressed views 我知道，梅丽莎和莎朗表达了，自己的观点，
that they think all the truth will come out in the trial. 她们认为所有的真相，都会在审判中，大白于天下。
What do you think the truth is in all of this? 你觉得，这一切的真相是什么?
Do you support your parents that there are many other people involved? 你支持，你的父母认为有很多其他人，参与其中吗?
Definitely. I believe what they're doing is the right thing,they're gonna find the truth, 绝对相信。我相信，我爸妈所做的是正确的，他们会找到真相的，
and then when they find out the truth and, um, and everybody knows what's been going on, 等他们发现真相，大家都知道发生了什么事，
then we can put this all behind us. 然后，我们才能释怀。
科罗拉多，丹佛市
[reporter] A federal judge has moved the Oklahoma bombing trial to Denver, [记者] 一名联邦法官，将俄克拉荷马州爆炸案的审判，移至丹佛市，
saying the defendants can't get a fair trial in Oklahoma. 并说，被告在俄克拉荷马州，无法得到公平审判。
The judge said that outweighs the wishes of victims' families who wanted the trial in Oklahoma, 法官表示，这虽然超出了受害者家属，希望在俄克拉荷马市进行审判的意愿，
making it easier for them to attend. 但会让他们，更容易去法庭旁听。
What happened April 19th, 1995,I don't want anybody to ever forget. 1995年4月19日发生的事，我不想让任何人忘记。
[Kimble] In the beginning,I started drinking, [金贝尔] 起初，我开始酗酒，
and one night walking back to the bedroom, 一天晚上，我走回卧室， （玛莎.金贝尔）
I passed out and cracked my head open. 我昏倒了，把头都撞破了。
And I thought at that time I'd better find something positive to do or I'm going to kill myself. 我当时想，我最好找一些积极的事情做，否则我会自杀的。
So I started a group called Families and Survivors United. 所以，我成立了一个名为“遇难与幸存者家庭联合会”的组织。
The pre-trial hearings started. 审前听证会开始了。
Judge Matsch said, "Okay,you can be in this courtroom, 马奇法官说，“好吧，你可以在这个法庭上，
but if you want to give an impact statement, 但如果你想发表，影响审理的陈述，
you better leave,because you can't do both." 你最好离开，因为你不能两者兼顾。”
I said, "Wait a minute.I have a right to be in that courtroom." 我说:“等一下。我有权出现在法庭上。”
On April the 19th, 1995, 1995年4月19日，
the bomb that shattered the Alfred P. Murrah Building in Oklahoma City also shattered my life. 炸毁俄克拉荷马城阿尔弗雷德.P.默拉大厦的炸弹，也炸毁了我的生活。
The victims' lobby in the Oklahoma City bombing was so powerful that they actually got a law passed. 俄克拉荷马城爆炸案的“受害者游说团”非常强大，他们甚至通过了一项法律。
[Kimble] It was a miracle. [金贝尔] 这是一个奇迹。
It went through the House and Senateand was signed by Clinton in two days. 该法案经过了参众两院的审议，并在两天内由克林顿签署。
[Ann Curry] Prosecutors in the Oklahoma City bombing case have a valuable new witness,Michael Fortier. [安妮.克里]俄克拉荷马城爆炸案的检察官有了一位宝贵的新证人，迈克尔·弗提耶。
[Ricks] At first, [里克斯] 一开始，
Michael Fortier refuses to cooperate. 迈克尔·弗提耶拒绝合作。
But he's got a wife that's pregnant. 但他的妻子怀孕了。
He makes a deal that he will fully cooperate as long as Lori doesn't go to prison. 他答应，只要洛莉不进监狱，他就会全力配合。
[reporter] Fortier said, "McVeigh told me he wanted to bomb the building on the anniversary of Waco, [记者] 弗提耶说:“麦克维告诉我，他想在‘韦科周年纪念日’炸毁这栋大楼，
April 19th, 在四月19日，
and that the bombing would trigger a second American Revolution." 这次爆炸，将引发了‘第二次美国革命’。”
McVeigh confided everything in him. 麦克维把一切，都向他吐露了。 （艾坦.戈尔曼，前美国司法部长助理）
And-- and to Lori. 还有...还有洛莉。
[Toobin] The most memorable moment in the trial to me [图宾]对我来说，审判中最难忘的时刻，
was when Lori Fortier talked about Timothy McVeigh 是洛莉·弗提耶谈到蒂莫西·麦克维
getting Campbell's Soup cans out of the kitchen cabinet 从厨房橱柜里拿出金宝汤罐头，
and laying out how he was going to arrange the barrels of explosives in the truck. 并陈述他将如何，在卡车上布置炸药桶。
It was so real. It was so vivid. 这太形象，太生动了。
It was the kind of thing you couldn't make up if you wanted to. 这种事，是你想编，也编不出来的。
I sat with Michael Fortier for hundreds of hours. 我和迈克尔·弗提耶坐了几百个小时。
I know everybody who was called on the phone card. 我认识了，在我们称之为，“焦点电话卡”上的所有人。
When you ask me why I'm so confident that we got the right guys and that there's no one else kind of out there, 当你问我，为什么如此确信，我们找到了正确的案犯，而没有其他人，逍遥法外的时候，
it's because of things like Fortier and the phone card. 是因为掌握了弗提耶和电话卡之类的事。
This was the government's version of the case, 这是政府对此案的说法，
that the Spotlight calling card is the sum and substance of McVeigh and Nichols' contacts, 这张“焦点电话卡”归了包堆，其实就是麦克维和尼科尔斯的联系，
and it doesn't disclose any co-conspirators. 而它没有透露任何“同谋者”。
[Coulson] I've seen 302s. [考尔森] 我看见过302号证物。
302s are a report by the FBI. 302号是联邦调查局提供的一份报告。
Private citizens have said the morning of the bombing 有市民说，在爆炸发生的那天早上，
they saw somebody else in that truck with McVeigh. 他们看到有其他人，和麦克维一起在卡车里。
That's very troubling to me. 这让我很困扰。
And I will tell you why I think that never got followed up. 我会告诉你，为什么我认为，这没有得到跟进。
Had they introduced that and followed that line of investigation, 如果他们引入了这条线索，并按照这条线索进行调查，
that would have diminished his culpability. 就会减轻他的罪责。
The defense didn't bring it up because it's one more witness that says McVeigh was there. 辩方没有提起，是因为又多了一个证人，能证明麦克维在场。
We didn't call any of the eyewitnesses because their testimony would have been damaging to McVeigh. 我们没有传唤任何目击者，因为他们的证词，会对麦克维不利。
To call them, we're establishing that McVeigh was in downtown Oklahoma City 要传唤他们，我们要确定，麦克维当时在俄克拉荷马市中心，
when the government's case was largely circumstantial that he was there. 而政府的案子主要是推测，他在那里。
[reporter] The sister of bombing suspect Timothy McVeigh [记者] 爆炸案嫌疑人蒂莫西·麦克维的妹妹表示，
says she's sorry she has to cooperate with prosecutors in the case against her brother. 很抱歉，她不得不配合检察官，起诉她哥哥。
[Jennifer] I think he's been unfairly demonized. [詹妮弗] 我认为他被妖魔化了。
He's just a normal person.He's... 他只是个普通人，他…
not this evil thing they're painting him to be. 不是他们描绘的，那个邪恶的人。
[reporter] She says FBI agents frightened her into cooperating by threatening her with prosecution. [记者] 她说，联邦调查局探员，威胁要起诉她，迫使她合作。
[Wilkinson] I was responsible for trying to prepare Jennifer McVeigh as a witness. [威尔金森] 我负责让詹妮弗·麦克维做证人的准备工作。
Jennifer McVeigh's testimony, 詹妮弗·麦克维的证词，
I think, was dramatic from beginning to end because of who she was. 我认为，她从头到尾都很戏剧化，就因为她的身份。
She said when she heard about the bombing, 她说，当她听到爆炸的消息时，
she immediately had this eerie feeling that she knew that her brother might have been involved. 她立刻有了一种“诡异”的感觉，她知道，她的哥哥可能与爆炸有关。
We did our best. 我们尽了力。
We put all of our energy and effort into it, and we'll wait and see what the jury says. 我们投入了所有的精力和努力，我们会等着，看陪审团怎么说。
[O'Donnell] Giving the court case number for The United States v. Timothy James McVeigh. [奥唐纳尔] 这是联邦政府起诉蒂莫西·詹姆斯·麦克维的案件编号。
Guilty.Guilty on all 11 counts. 有罪。11项罪名全部成立。
[Jones] It's as though Tim wanted us to fail. [琼斯] 就好像，蒂姆想让我们失败似的。
He wanted to say, "I did it." 他就想说，“是我干的。”
But first,he wanted the jury trial just in case he got off. 但首先，如果他想脱罪，他想让陪审团审判。
But then when he didn't get off, then he wanted the fame,or infamy, that he did it. 但当他无法逃脱惩罚时，他就会想要名声，或者耻辱，因为他做了这件事。
I went to Tim, and I said, 我去找蒂姆，对他说，
"Tim, I need to tell you that I'm not... the lawyer you need for the appeal. “蒂姆，我得告诉你，我不是...你需要的“上诉律师”。
I'm going to seek to withdraw." 我将寻求退出。”
I told him that I had figured out where he had lied and the proof that he had lied. 我告诉他,我已经发现了，他在哪些方面撒了谎，和他撒谎的证据。
And when I finished, he said, 当我说完，他说，
"How would the truth help me?" “真相，对我有什么帮助?”
And I mistakenly said, "I don't know that it would." 我当时错误地说道:“我不知道，会不会有帮助。”
[Wilkinson] People forget that a prosecution is not there [威尔金森]人们忘记了，诉讼并不是为了
to lay out a historical record of the entire movement 展现整个事态发展的历史记录，
or in everything that McVeigh ever did in his life. 也不是为了记录麦克维一生中所做的一切。
That's what history books are for, and that's a different-- different goal. 这就是历史书的意义所在，这是一个...不同的目标。
Here, it was to prove the elements of the crime and hold him accountable. 在这个审判中，这是为了证明犯罪的要素，并追究他的责任。
The criminal law can only do so much. 刑法只能做这么多。
And we got everybody who was legally, criminally responsible for the bombing. 我们找到了，所有对爆炸负有法律和刑事责任的人。
There-- there could have been other people who were... 可能，还有其他人...
If we had the evidence, 如果我们有证据，
could've been criminally culpable. 可能会有追究刑事责任。
But then there's a whole universe of people who were not criminally culpable 但还有一大群人，他们没有刑事责任，
but who bear some measure of moral responsibility. 但却承担着一定程度的道德责任。
[Sands] Tim McVeigh was part of the group that wanted to declare war on America. [桑兹] 蒂姆.麦克维，是想要向美国宣战的团体中的一员。
The government thought, 政府曾经这样想，
"We tried to round them all up once with this sedition trial in '88,and we blew it. “我们曾试图在1988年的一次针对煽动叛乱审判中，把他们都抓起来，但我们搞砸了。 （1988年在阿肯色州史密斯堡的那次审判，10名白人权力运动分子被告，被判无罪）
We can't do that again. 我们不能再这样了。
We have to limit this." 我们必须限制这种情况。”
And the American people are none the wiser 而美国广大人民对此一无所知，
about how ugly and how serious some Americans are 那就是，有一些美国人，他们如此丑陋地，如此认真地
about destroying this nation. 想要毁掉这个国家。
[Boettcher] We always believed that there had to be more people involved. [博特切尔] 我们一直认为应该有更多的人参与进来。
We started talking to militia groups, 我们开始和民兵组织谈判，
people who may have supported them. 那些可能支持他们的人。
These extreme beliefs just weren't held by a few people. 持有这些极端信仰的人，并不是少数。
Actually, there were a lot of people out there who felt the way McVeigh did. 事实上，有很多人和麦克维有同样的感受。
So we would go to places like Elohim City in far eastern Oklahoma, 所以，我们会去俄克拉何马州最东边的耶洛因城， （希伯来语中上帝之城的意思）
where we believed that McVeigh had passed through. 我们认为，麦克维曾经从那里经过。
[Boettcher] They were following Christian identity. [博特切尔] 他们遵循基督徒的身份。
Their belief was anything that wasn't white was subhuman. 他们认为，只要是非白人，都是次等人。
If you just want to boil down to it,that's what it was. 如果你想把它做个归结，那它就是这个。
[Coulson] Elohim City is key to a lot of things here. [考尔森] 这座耶洛因城，是很多事情的关键。
I think McVeigh definitely was at Elohim City. 我觉得，麦克维肯定去过耶洛因城。
ATF had an informant that put him there, Carol Howe. 烟酒火器局的线人，把他送到那里的，卡罗尔·豪。
[Boettcher on recording] NBC has learned that the community was penetrated by this woman, [博特切尔的录音] 全国广播公司了解到，这个社区，被这个女人渗入了，
Carol Howe,a paid government informant, 卡罗尔·豪，一名受政府雇佣的“线人”，
who was gathering information on possible threats against the U.S. government. 她正在搜集，有可能威胁到美国政府的信息。
The government acknowledges in federal documents that she was their informant. 政府在联邦文件中，承认她是他们的“线人”。
[Toobin] Carol Howe was an Oklahoma aristocrat. [图宾] 卡罗尔·豪是俄克拉何马州的“贵族”。
Her father was the CEO of a Fortune 500 company in Tulsa. 她的父亲是一家位于塔尔萨的，财富500强公司的首席执行官。
But when she was just into her 20s, 但当她刚20多岁时，
she got caught up with some really crazy right-wing folks. 她和一群疯狂的“右翼分子”混在了一起。
At the same time,she became an informant for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. 与此同时，她成为烟酒和火器局的线人。
We started following the trail of neo-Nazis, 我们开始追踪新纳粹分子的踪迹，
and she had a neo-Nazi boyfriend, 她有个新纳粹男友，
a guy named Dennis Mahon. 一个叫丹尼斯·马洪的人。
The faster this country falls, 这个国家衰落得越快，
the faster we'll be able to rebuild a nation for ourself. 我们就能越快重建一个，属于我们自己的国家。
[Boettcher on recording]Remarkably, Howe and Mahon appeared together in a 1994 German television interview. [博特切尔录音] 值得注意的是，豪和马洪一起出现在1994年的德国电视采访中。
Howe gave the government information before the bombing on alleged threats by others in Elohim City, 豪在爆炸发生前，向政府提供了有关耶洛因城其他人威胁的信息，
including this man,Andreas Strassmeir. 包括这个人，安德里亚斯.斯特拉斯梅尔。
According to federal documents, 根据联邦文件，
Strassmeir was the military training officer for Mahon's organization. 斯特拉斯梅尔是“马洪组织”的军事训练官。
Strassmeir was last seen in Germany. 斯特拉斯梅尔最后一次露面，是在德国。
This is one of Carol Howe's reports to her ATF handler. 这是卡罗尔·豪给烟酒火管局主管的报告之一。
She's talking about Andreas Strassmeir at Elohim City. 她说的是，耶洛因城的安德烈亚斯·斯特拉斯梅尔。
"Andy leads the young adults in guerrilla warfare and tactical maneuvers. “安迪带领年轻人进行游击战和战术演习。
His 'plans,' quote, 这里，引用自他的计划，
are to forcibly act to destroy the U.S. government with direct actions and operations, 是通过直接行动和运作，强行摧毁美国政府，
assassinations, bombings,mass shootings, et cetera. 暗杀，爆炸，大规模枪击等等。
He believes we cannot out-breed the enemy so we must use mass genocide against them. 他认为我们无法在生育上超越敌人，所以我们必须对他们进行大规模“种族灭绝”。
And of course the biggest enemy-- 当然，最大的敌人是...
the U.S. government." 美国政府。”
She reported that there was an increasing discussion of violence and there was a discussion about blowing up a building, 她报告说，关于暴力的讨论越来越多，还有关于炸毁一栋大楼的讨论， （克拉克.布鲁斯特，卡罗尔.豪的律师）
even to the point that they made a visit to Oklahoma City and drove around. 甚至他们还去了俄克拉荷马城，开车兜风。
There wouldn't have probably been an Oklahoma City bombing, in my view, 在我看来，俄克拉荷马城可能不会发生爆炸，
had Elohim City been investigated more diligently. 如果,当初对耶洛因城进行更认真的调查的话。
[Sands] Carol Howe knew what was happening and she told them she had seen a guy. [桑兹] 卡罗尔.豪知道发生了什么，她告诉他们，她看到了一个男人。
They identified him as Tim Tuttle. 他们确认，他是蒂姆·塔特尔。
At the time,she wouldn't have known anything about who this guy was. 那时候，她根本不知道这个人是谁。
But after the bombing, 但是在爆炸之后，
she knew it was Tim McVeigh.She had seen his pictures. 她知道，就是蒂姆·麦克维。她看过他的画像。
Tim was walking through camp with Andreas Strassmeir, 蒂姆和安德里亚斯·斯特拉斯梅尔一起穿过营地，
just some guy named Tim Tuttle walking with Andy the German. 还有一个叫蒂姆·塔特尔的人和德国人安迪一起走。
Andy Strassmeir was an important person that I thought needed to be interviewed. 安迪.斯特拉斯梅尔是一个很重要的人，我认为，他需要接受采访。 （理查德.雷纳，麦克维辩护团队的调查员）
I was able to meet with Strassmeir. 我和斯特拉斯梅尔见了面。
And I asked a simple question. I said, 我问了一个简单的问题。我说,
"Why is it that there are 302s,FBI 302s, interviews, “为什么会有302号证物，联邦调查局的302号报告，对所有这些
with all of these different radical people... 不同的激进分子的采访...
but they don't have you?" 但他们没有抓你?”
As I expected, you know,he-- he knew nothing. 正如我所料，他什么都不知道。
He might have met Tim at a gun show. 他可能是在枪支展上，认识蒂姆的。
Couldn't remember. 记不起来了。
[Strassmeir] I forgot about this person... [斯特拉斯梅尔] 我忘了这个人...
当我在图尔萨的展销会上逛的时候，我几乎都忘掉了这个人
你也知道，他是我见过的众多的人中的一个。
但有可能，他还记得我，而且他还有一张我们教会的电话卡。
One of the things that really concerned me was when I got a hold of McVeigh's phone records. 真正让我担心的一件事，是当我拿到麦克维的电话记录时。
He called Elohim City two minutes after calling the Ryder Truck company, 他打电话给莱德物流卡车公司，两分钟后，又打电话给耶洛因城，
and he asked to speak to Andreas Strassmeir. 他要求和安德烈亚斯·斯特拉斯梅尔通话。
我不清楚，我只知道他给我打了好多电话。
还告诉人们，说有事情将要发生了。
The FBI interviewed thousands of people regarding Timothy McVeigh, 联邦调查局就蒂莫西·麦克维，询问了数千人，
including his second-grade schoolteacher. 包括他的二年级老师。
But they didn't think it was important to talk to Andreas Strassmeir. 但他们认为和安德里亚斯.斯特拉斯梅尔的谈话，并不重要。
He wound up leaving the country and went back to Germany. 他最后离开了这个国家，回到了德国。
It was like more than a year later that the FBI called and did a telephone interview with him. 大约一年多以后，联邦调查局打电话给他，对他进行了电话采访。
[Coulson] Strassmeir,there's controversy about him. [考尔森] 斯特拉斯梅尔，关于他有争议。
Some people think he's a source of the Israelis, 有些人认为他是以色列人的线人，
and some people think he's a source of the West German government. 有些人认为，他是西德政府的线人。
At the time, 在当时，
the German government was very unhappy with the FBI. 德国政府对联邦调查局非常不满。
Because we have guidelines on how we investigate domestic terrorism. 因为我们有调查国内恐怖主义的指导方针。
They're pretty limiting. 它们相当有限制。
And so they wanted to try to get their own information. 所以，他们想要获取自己的情报。
Somebody should have looked at it. 应该有派人过来看看情况。
I personally was responsible for searching the intelligence files here in the United States, 我个人负责在美国搜索情报文件， （贝丝.威尔金森，前美国检察官助理）
and there's no evidence there was foreign involvement. 没有证据表明有外国势力参与。
McVeigh had met him at a gun show and called him, you know,two weeks before he engaged in the bombing. 麦克维在一次枪支展上认识了他，给他打了电话，就在他参与爆炸案的两周前。
That doesn't show there's any connection. 这并不表明，有任何联系。
He met lots of people at gun shows. 他在枪支展销会上，认识了很多人。
[Jones] There was certainly evidence that Tim McVeigh had probably been at Elohim City. [琼斯]有确凿的证据表明，蒂姆·麦克维很可能在耶洛因城。
He kept denying that he had been there, 他一直否认他去过那里，
but yet, he was stopped, I believe, 但是，我相信，他被拦下来了，
by an Arkansas highway patrolman on a road that led to Elohim City. 是在通往耶洛因城的路上，被一名阿肯色州的高速公路巡警拦下的。
There were people that said he had been there. 有人说他去过那里。
[Reyna] I told him, I said,"Tim, you know and I know... [雷纳] 我告诉他，我说:“蒂姆，你知道，我也知道...
that you were used." He didn't say anything. 你被利用了。” 他什么也没说。
He didn't say,"No, that didn't happen." 他没有说，“不，那没有发生。”
The way that group was always together, 那群人总是在一起，
there's just no way he was not there. 他不可能不在场。
Strassmeir was there,Ellison was there, 斯特梅尔在那里，埃里森在那里，
Snell was buried there in Elohim City. 斯内尔被埋葬在耶洛因城。
[Sanders] On the day Snell was executed, [桑兹] 斯内尔被处决的那天，
he asked for the TV to be turned on in his cell, 他要求把牢房里的电视打开，
and the prison watch log notes that, 监狱看守记录上写着，
"Inmate Snell smiled and chuckled as he watched the coverage of the Oklahoma City bombing." “囚犯斯内尔一边看着俄克拉荷马城爆炸案的报道，一边笑着。”
It's just hard for me to believe that it was all coincidence. 只是我很难相信，这一切都是巧合。
[Wright] It's not a coincidence. [莱特] 这绝不是巧合。
Remember, the idea of blowing up the Murrah Building 记住，炸毁默拉大厦的想法
was hatched ten years earlier among members of the Covenant, Sword,and Arm of the Lord. 早在十年前就在“圣约，圣剑和上帝之臂”的成员中酝酿出来了。
This was a plan that not just McVeigh 这是一个计划，不仅是麦克维，
but others who were at Elohim City decided to resurrect from the ashes. 还有其他在耶洛因城的人，决定从灰烬中复活。
[Sands] I came to understand Elohim City was the training ground. [桑兹] 我开始明白，耶洛因城原来是个训练场。
The Covenant, the Sword,and the Arm of the Lord had moved its operations to the Cookson Hills of Oklahoma. “圣约、圣剑和上帝之臂”已经转移到俄克拉何马州的库克森山。
And that's where they were gonna train these people to overthrow the government. 他们就是在那里训练这些人，来推翻政府。
These guys were ready for war. 这些家伙已经做好了战争的准备。
1997年六月13日，科罗拉多州,丹佛
[reporter] In court,McVeigh watched intently as the jury filed in. [记者] 在法庭上，麦克维聚精会神地看着陪审团进场。
Judge Richard Matsch asked for their decision. 法官理查德·马奇，要求他们做出决定。
"The jury recommends the following," said the judge. “陪审团建议如下，”法官说。
"That Timothy James McVeigh be sentenced to death." “蒂莫西·詹姆斯·麦克维被判死刑。”
[Welch] I went to the bomb site every day after the bombing, [韦尔奇]爆炸发生后，我每天都去爆炸现场，
asking myself,"What can I do to feel better?" 问自己:“我能做些什么，让自己感觉更好?”
And I finally came to the conclusion that the day we would take Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols 我最后得出的结论是，即使有一天，我们把蒂姆·麦克维和特里·尼科尔斯
from their cage to kill them was simply not going to be part of my healing process. 从笼子里抓出来，并宰了他们，也根本不会成为我康复过程的一部分。
[Sanders] My husband was dying during McVeigh's trial. [桑德斯] 我丈夫在麦克维受审的时候，都快死了。
The babies are dead, and then Glenn died. 孩子们都死了，然后格伦也死了。
The trials came and went. 审判来了，又结束了。
There's a lot of unanswered questions. 留下很多未解之谜。
I believe I owed it to them to continue that journey 我相信，为了他们，我应该继续这段旅程，
to try to get answers to these questions. 努力找到这些问题的答案。
Over the years,it's been a balancing act, almost like a tightrope act for me, to... 这么多年来，这一直是一种平衡，对我来说就像走钢丝一样…
to not get lumped in with the crazies. …不想掉进，这些疯狂的想法之中。
I needed to just find my truth,not invent it. 我只需要找到我的真相，而不是编造。
I learned about these groups around the country. 我在全国各地，了解到这些组织。
[Sanders] They thrive on hate. [桑德斯] 他们因为仇恨而滋生。
And I think it's like a cancer. 我觉得，这就像癌症一样。
I went to the Aryan Nation compound in Hayden Lake, Idaho. 我去了位于爱达荷州海登湖的“雅利安民族大院”。
I'd heard that Timothy McVeigh had been through there, 我听说蒂莫西·麦克维也来过这里，
and that's how-- They helped shape his hateful ideals. 这就是为什么...他们帮助塑造了，他那可恶的“理想”。
And I said, "I'm here to see Pastor Richard Butler." 我说:“我是来见理查德·巴特勒牧师的。”
For me,he's the head of the snake. 对我来说，他是毒蛇的头。
But I've got a desperation to know the truth, 但我很想知道真相，
and I'm willing to dance with the devil to get it. 我愿意和魔鬼共舞，来得到真相。
We're talking about creating a national state for the white Aryan. 我们说的是，为白种雅利安人建立一个民族国家。
[Sanders] He begins his sermon,and he looks at me, and he says, "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter," [桑德斯] 他开始布道，看着我说，“一个人的恐怖分子,是另一个人的自由战士，”
and that Timothy McVeigh was a great man and a martyr for the cause. 他说，蒂莫西·麦克维是一个伟大的人，是这个事业的烈士。
And he actually teared up when he said, 他说着说着，还真流下了眼泪，
"I am so sorry about your little Aryan grandsons." “对于你的雅利安小孙子我很遗憾。”
He said, "I cried when I saw them on TV." 他说:“当我在电视上看到他们时，我哭了。”
[Couric] Since the tragedy here in Oklahoma City, [库里克] 自从俄克拉荷马城的悲剧发生后，
some of those who lost loved ones have found a new purpose in life. 一些失去亲人的人，找到了新的生活目标。
Bud Welch, Kathy Wilburn,good morning. 巴德·韦尔奇，凯西·威尔本，早上好。
- So nice to see you both. - [both] Good morning. -很高兴见到你们俩。 -[两人]早上好。
I know that both of you call Bill McVeigh, Timothy McVeigh's father,the forgotten victim. 我知道，你们都把比尔·麦克维，蒂莫西·麦克维的父亲，称为被遗忘的受害者。
[Sanders] If I put myself in his shoes, and I wonder how it must feel to, [桑德斯]如果我设身处地为他着想，我想知道
you know, to wait to have your child executed, it's got to be terrifying. 等待自己的孩子，被处决是什么感觉，那一定很可怕。
We have to recognize what an execution is. 我们必须认识到，什么是“处决”。
An execution is an event.It's staged. 执行是一个事件。这是举行。
We know what time the killing's going to happen. 我们知道，杀戮发生的时间。
It's nothing more than a staged political event. 这只不过是一场，精心策划的“政治事件”。
It does nothing more or less for society than that. 它对社会的贡献，仅此而已。
[Welch] Tim McVeigh's father was on the news. [韦尔奇]蒂姆·麦克维的父亲上了新闻。
I could see this man,a broken man... 我能看到这个人，一个心灵破碎的人…
with grief in his eyes. 他眼中充满了悲伤。
And my thought was, "I want to go tell that man that I care how he feels, 我的想法是，“我想去告诉那个男人，我关心他的感受，
and I don't blame him for what his son had done." 我不会因为他儿子的所作所为，而责怪他。”
When Bill opened the door, and he introduced me to Jennifer... 当比尔打开门，把我介绍给詹妮弗时…
and there's a picture kind of behind me of Tim. …我身后有一张蒂姆的照片。
I looked at Bill out of the corner of my eye, and I could see at that moment... 我用眼角的余光看着比尔，那一刻我能看到……
a love that this father had for this son. …父亲对儿子的爱。
And Jennifer just kind of went to sobbing. 珍妮弗就哭了起来。
And I held her face in my hands,and I said, "Honey, 我双手捧着她的脸，说:“亲爱的，
I'll do everything I can 我会尽我所能
to keep your brother from being killed." 不让你哥哥被杀。”
All of a sudden, it felt like this tremendous weight had been removed from my shoulders, 突然间，我觉得肩上的重担被卸下了，
and I never felt closer to God than I did at that moment. 我从来没有像那一刻那样，感到离上帝更近了。
Because what I recognized that...that Saturday morning was... 因为我意识到，那个...那个星期六的早晨是...
the day that we... that our parents die, 我们的父母死的那天，
we go to the hilltop and we bury them. 我们把他们埋葬在山顶上。
The day our children die,we bury them in our heart, 孩子死的那天，我们把他们埋葬在心里，
and that never goes away. 这种感觉，永远不会消失。
[reporter] Terry Nichols entered the courthouse on the first day of his trial. [记者] 特里·尼科尔斯在审判的第一天走进法院。
He will face a crowd of people. 他将面对一群人。
Twelve of those could ultimately decide if he dies. 其中12个人，最终会决定，他是否会死。
[Boettcher] If I had the opportunity to sit down with Terry Nichols, [博特切尔] 如果我有机会和特里·尼科尔斯坐下来谈谈，
I would press on who else was involved. 我会追问，还有谁参与其中。
Where did the money come from? 资金是是从哪里来的?
[man 1] Yes! Much to plunder. [男人1] 是的!有很多东西可以掠夺。
[man 2] I see you boys had a good mission. [男人2] 看来你们的任务很成功。 （雅利安共和军招募视频）
- Nest egg! -充当储备金！
- [Boettcher] Did the funding for the Oklahoma City bombing -[博特切尔] 俄克拉荷马城爆炸案的资金
come from those bank robberies that were done by radical groups? 来自激进组织抢劫银行吗?
[Boettcher on recording]The Midwestern Bank Bandits are white supremacists who allegedly robbed 22 banks in seven states. 博特切尔说，中西部银行劫匪是白人至上主义者，据称7个州有22家银行被抢。
The take: $250,000. 损失了：25万美元。
Law enforcement officials believe the money was distributed to other white supremacist groups. 执法官员认为，这些钱被分发给了，其他白人至上主义组织。
Members of the gang were frequent visitors to Elohim City. 该团伙的成员，是耶洛因城的常客。
[Sands] Tim had no visible means of support. [桑兹] 蒂姆没有“看得见的”经济来源。
You gotta feed yourself,you gotta keep the car going,you gotta have money for...just to be able to spend the night someplace. 你得养活自己，你得维持汽车运转，你得有钱……就为了能找个地方过夜。
He was always renting a room. 他总是租一个房间。
Where'd the money come from? 钱从哪来的?
And then I read his sister said that he told her in this letter that he got some money out of robbing banks. 然后我读到他妹妹说，他在信中告诉她，他抢银行赚了些钱。
And there were other robberies. 还有其他的抢劫案。
He also robbed a gun dealer named Roger Moore. 他还抢劫了一个叫罗杰·摩尔的枪贩子。
[Boettcher on recording]About six months before the Oklahoma City bombing, [博特切尔的录音] 大约在俄克拉荷马城爆炸案的六个月前，
a masked gunman allegedly robbed gun dealer Roger Moore of gold bullion, coins,and weapons. 一名蒙面枪手，据称抢劫了“枪贩子”罗杰·摩尔的金条、硬币和武器。
[Michel] McVeigh met this fellow, Roger Moore, at one of the gun shows, [米歇尔] 麦克维在一次枪支展上遇到了罗杰·摩尔，
and they become something of business partners. 他们成为了某种商业伙伴。
He and Roger Moore ultimately had a falling out, 他和罗杰·摩尔最终闹翻了，
and McVeigh is the mastermind behind a robbery at Roger Moore's house. 麦克维是罗杰·摩尔家抢劫案的主谋。
And Terry Nichols committed the robbery. 泰瑞·尼科尔斯犯了抢劫罪。
[Wilkinson] Roger Moore was called as a witness because Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh stole weapons from him, 罗杰·摩尔被传为证人，因为特里·尼科尔斯和蒂莫西·麦克维偷了他的武器，
and they were used in part to fund the bombing. 它们在一定程度上，被用来资助了爆炸。
[Sanders] At Terry Nichols' trial, he was not like Timothy McVeigh at all. [桑德斯]在特里·尼科尔斯的审判中，他一点也不像蒂莫西·麦克维。
He didn't make eye contact with anyone. 他没有和任何人，进行眼神交流。
He was always looking down. 他总是往下看。
When the judge had a recess, I saw this little lady standing out in the hall. 当法官休庭时，我看到这位矮小女士，站在大厅里。
I realized it was Terry Nichols' mother. 我意识到，这是特里·尼科尔斯的母亲。
I walked up to her.I said, "I'm Kathy Wilburn." 我走向她。我说:“我是凯西·威尔伯恩。”
She begins to cry and said,"I know who you are. 她开始哭着说:“我知道你是谁。
I've seen you on TV." 我在电视上见过你。”
And I put my arms around her,and I said, "Well, I want you to know how sorry I am for your family." 我搂着她说:“我想让你知道，我为你家的事感到难过。”
And then we went back in the courtroom and I just sat down with her. 然后我们回到法庭，我和她坐了下来。
It was like Terry Nichols,the bomber, became my friend Joyce's son. 就这样，那个“炸弹客”，特里.尼科尔斯的妈妈，乔伊斯，成了我的朋友。
The jury thought he was guilty, but they didn't know how guilty. 陪审团认为他有罪，但他们不知道，他有多严重的罪名。
They had questions just like I did. 他们和我一样有“疑问”。
[reporter] The jury found Nichols guilty of only conspiracy and involuntary manslaughter. [记者] 陪审团只认定，尼科尔斯犯有共谋罪，和过失杀人罪。
Nichols won't get the death penalty for his federal conspiracy conviction. 尼科尔斯不会因阴谋反对联邦罪，而被判死刑。
There are other people out there, 案件之外，还有其他（嫌疑）人， （妮基.多伊奇曼，陪审团女陪审长）
and decisions were probably made very early on that Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols were who they were looking for, 只是一开始，他们就决定要调查蒂姆.麦克维和特里.尼科尔斯的犯罪证据，
and the same sort of resources were not used to try to find out who else might be involved. 同样的搜查资源，一点儿都没有用在调查，是否有其他人涉案上。
[Sanders] A few days after the trial, I had a letter. [桑德斯] 审判几天后，我收到了一封信。
Return address was Terry Nichols. 回信地址是特里·尼科尔斯。
And I thought, "Mm, you know,I'm not looking for a pen pal. 我想，“嗯，你知道，我不是在找笔友。
And if I was, it wouldn't be the Oklahoma City bomber." 如果我是，那也不会是俄克拉荷马城的“炸弹客”。”
And then it kind of like dawned on me, 然后，我忽然意识到，
"Well, who's going to know more about the bombing than the bomber himself?" “有谁会比“炸弹客”自己，更了解爆炸案呢？”
We started writing back and forth. 我们开始来回写信。
[Coss] The Terry Nichols relationship, I still don't really understand it. [科斯] 特里·尼科尔斯的人际关系，我还是不太明白。
I frequently tell my mom, and when we do presentations around the United States, 当我们在美国各地做演讲时，我经常跟我妈妈说， (丹尼尔.科斯，前俄克拉荷马市警官)
that if I ever saw Terry Nichols and we were in a room together for five minutes, 假如，让我碰见特里.尼科尔斯，我们只在一个屋子里，呆上五分钟，
I'd be the only one that comes out. 我就会是，唯一走出房间的那个人。
[Sanders] I have forgiven, yes. [桑德斯] 我已经宽恕了， 是的。
Do I think people should be punished? Yes. 我认为，那些人应该受到惩罚吗？ 是的。
Forgiveness and punishment are two different things. 宽恕和惩罚是两回事。
I want everybody involved in this to be accountable. 我希望，所有参与此事的人，都能承担责任。
You know, forgiveness is a choice you make. 你知道，宽恕是你自己的选择。
You can forgive... 你能宽恕...
or you can stay bitter. 或者,你可以继续痛苦。
And forgiving Terry Nichols was one of the best choices I ever made. 原谅特里·尼科尔斯，是我做过的最好的选择之一。
It changed my life. 它改变了我的生活。
Terry Nichols was remorseful,unlike McVeigh. 特里·尼科尔斯很懊悔，不像麦克维。
And he told me, "Whenever I'm not under the threat of the death penalty anymore,I'm gonna tell you everything." 他告诉我，“只要我不再受到死刑的威胁，我就会告诉你一切。”
And he has tried. 他已经尝试过了。
I'd like to read you part of this letter that Terry Nichols sent me. 我想给你读一段，特里·尼科尔斯寄给我的信。
"So to put everything in a nutshell, Kathy, “所以简而言之，凯西，
Timothy McVeigh was the manipulated foot soldier, 蒂莫西·麦克维是被操纵的“马前小卒”，
Roger Moore the middleman who supplied Tim with encouragement,instructions,and some explosives. 罗杰·摩尔这个中间人，给蒂姆提供了鼓励，指导和一些炸药。
And the top dog, the director who orchestrated it all, 而有个“头号人物”，他导演策划了这一切，
is a rogue FBI agent with the help of others who I will not name at this time." 他是一个得到其他人帮助的FBI无赖特工，我现在还不会透露他的名字。”
[Sanders] I don't know if what he wrote was true or not, [桑德斯]我不知道他写的是真是假，
but after that letter,he was notified by the warden that I was to be taken off of his calling list. 但在那封信之后，典狱长通知他，已经把我从他的通讯联系录上“除名”了。
We've been stopped. 我们之间被阻断了。
2001年6月，印第安那州，泰瑞豪特
[reporter] Here's how it works. [记者] 就是这样。
Timothy McVeigh lives in a special confinement unit. 蒂莫西·麦克维住在一个特殊的拘留所。
That is the building there with the green roof. 就是那座有绿色屋顶的建筑。
He will be transported by van to the execution house. 他将被押送到刑场。
[Herbeck] He told us that, [赫贝克]他告诉我们，
"When the federal government puts me to death, “当联邦政府判我死刑时，
I'm still gonna be the winner, 我仍然是赢家，
because it's 168 for Tim McVeigh and one for the government." 因为蒂姆·麦克维得了168分，政府得了1分。”
[Michel] You have these three tubes that are coming out of a wall [米歇尔]你看见有三根管子从墙上伸出来，
with the three chemicals,poison, to kill him. 里面有三种化学物质，毒药，要杀死他。
The executioner was given the order,and all of a sudden these tubes started swaying in, like, this ghostly way. 刽子手接到命令后，突然这些管子，开始像幽灵一样晃动。
And meanwhile, McVeigh is looking straight up at a camera that is giving a live feed to an auditorium 与此同时，麦克维正直视着一个正在向礼堂直播的摄像机
where other victims,and family members,survivors are watching. 其他受害者及其家属，和幸存者们，正在观看行刑。
[Sanders] He glares this "go to hell" look at us. [桑德斯 ]他用“去死吧”的眼神，瞪着我们。
They push the button... 他们按下按钮...
and he went... [gasps softly] He was gone. 然后他走了... [轻轻地喘着气] 他走了。
[Michel] He died with his eyes open. [米歇尔] 他死的时候，眼睛是睁着的。
[Clinton] I wondered what would've happened if... [克林顿] 我想知道，假如是这样...
I'd known Timothy McVeigh when he was a boy. 假设，当蒂莫西·麦克维还是个孩子时，我就认识他了。
I wonder if I would have gone out of my way to befriend him. 我想知道，我是否会特意去帮助他。
I wonder if--You know, you can-- 我想知道，如果... 你懂的，你能...
I wonder about all that. 我想知道这一切。
McVeigh was a tragic example of a guy who thought our differences were more important than what we have in common. 麦克维是一个悲剧性的例子，他认为我们之间的差异，比我们的共同点，更重要。
Were there objective reasons that he felt the way he did, both personal and psychological? 是否有客观的原因，使他有这样的感觉，无论是个人的，还是心理的?
Absolutely. 绝对有的。
And political and economic? Yes. 是政治和经济方面的吗？ 是的。
But we can't blow the house up. 但我们不能把房子炸了。
It doesn't matter whether he was right about anything or not. 他对任何问题的看法，是对，还是错，这些都无关重要。
What matters is he decided he should kill people he didn't know,including little kids. 重要的是，他决定要杀害他不认识的人，包括小孩子。
But the words he used,the arguments he made... 但他的用词，他的论点...
literally sound like the mainstream today. 听起来，就像今天的主流。
Like he won. 就像是，他赢了。
[bagpipes playing] [风笛演奏]
第三波浪潮
2022年四月19日，俄克拉荷马市国家纪念馆
Tim McVeigh set out to destroy the government. 蒂姆·麦克维打算摧毁政府。
He destroyed my family. 他毁了我的家庭。
My brothers passed away in the Oklahoma City bombing, and we go there to remember. 我的兄弟们在俄克拉荷马城爆炸案中丧生，我们去那里纪念。
[man] The risk of terrorism, it's always kind of in the back of your head. [男子] 恐怖主义的风险，总是萦绕在你的脑海里。
[Kimble] I think there will be civil war in our country. [金贝尔] 我认为，我们的国家会发生内战。
It's frightening. 这是可怕的。
But there are lessons to be learned from what happened here in Oklahoma City. 但我们也可以从俄克拉荷马城发生的事情中，吸取教训。
The reason we come back here every year is that this wasn't a one-off thing. 我们每年都来这里的原因是，这不是“一次性”的事情。
It can really happen again. 这可能再次发生。
Where we're standing now was the Alfred P. Murrah Building. 我们现在站的地方是阿尔弗雷德·P·默拉大厦。
The empty chairs represent the 168 victims. 空椅子代表168名遇难者。
The gate behind me says "9:01," the moment of innocence before the bombing. 我身后的门上写着9:01 “爆炸前的纯真时刻”。
The gate over your shoulder says "9:03," the aftermath. 你肩上的门上写着9:03“爆炸的后果”。
Today. 今天。
This year we're living in is not much different from 1995. 我们生活的这一年，与1995年没有太大的不同。
People yelling at each other, not making arguments based on fact, but emotion. 人们对彼此大喊大叫，不是基于事实，而是基于情感。
Many folks feel left behind. 许多人感到被遗忘了。
Like their American dream has been stolen. 就像他们的美国梦被偷走了。
[all chanting] No sale! No sale! No sale! No sale! No sale! [全在喊] 卖不出！卖不出！卖不出！卖不出！卖不出！
No sale! No sale! 卖不出！卖不出！
[Boettcher] That rage doesn't disappear. [博特切尔] 这种愤怒没有消失。
It can explode on the fringes, as we've seen too many times since April 19th, 1995. 它可以在边缘爆发，正如我们自1995年4月19日以来，多次看到的那样。
[indistinct yelling] [含混的喊叫声]
[Boettcher] The Oklahoma City bombing was a crossroads. [博特切尔] 俄克拉荷马城爆炸案，是一个十字路口。
It was a huge signpost in history. 这是历史上一个巨大的路标。
"America, wake up." “美国，醒醒吧。”
But I think that sign got blown down. 但我觉得，那个标志，被炸飞了。
[reporter 1]... a mass shooting. [记者1]...大规模枪击。
[reporter 2] ...180-page manifesto. [记者2]...180页的宣言。
[reporter 3] He didn't come to worship. He came to kill. [记者3]他不是来做礼拜的。他是来杀人的。
[reporter 4] Tree of Life has never been the same. [记者4]生命之树从来都不一样。
[Noble] Every time I hear a news report on mass shootings, and domestic terrorism,right-wing extremism, [诺贝尔] 每次我听到大规模枪击事件、国内恐怖主义、右翼极端主义的新闻报道，
it always reminds me of when I was in the movement, 它总是让我想起，我以前在“运动”中的时候，
how dangerously close we as a group got, 我们作为一个团体，是多么危险地接近，
how dangerously close I got to committing domestic terrorism. 我是多么危险地接近国内恐怖主义。
So much has changed from our days back in the '80s. 和我们80年代的时代相比，变化太大了。
How mainstream extremism has become, 极端主义成为主流，
that was something we hoped for. 这曾经是我们那代人所希望的。
I'm seeing that now, and honestly, it scares me. 我居然在今天，亲眼看到了，说句实话，我真害怕了。
The closest thing that has happened since Oklahoma City, of course, 自俄克拉荷马城以来发生的最接近的事情，
is the January 6th riot on the Capitol Building. 当然是1月6日发生在国会大厦的骚乱。
[indistinct yelling] [含混的叫喊]
[Coss] On January 6th,I was the emergency planning specialist with the incident commander and everybody else who showed up. [科斯]1月6日，我是应急计划专员，与事故指挥官和其他所有人员一起出现。
So I was at that scene for about 18 hours. 我在现场呆了18个小时。 （丹尼尔.科斯，联邦首都警察局紧急计划专员）
[Sanders] When I saw the storming of the Capitol on January 6th, I'm thinking,"What's the chances [桑德斯]当我看到1月6日对国会大厦的冲击浪潮时，我在想，“会不会发生
that my boy's gonna be down at the bombing and gonna be involved in this as well?" 我的儿子也在爆炸中倒下，同样地，被卷入像这样的事件？”
And I was concerned for his safety. 我很担心他的安全。
[Coss] There's no call for what they did on January 6th. [科斯] 他们在1月6日做的事情，是完全没有必要的。
What they did was wrong,and they should be prosecuted for it. 他们所做的是错误的，他们应该为此受到起诉。
Every single day, we have protests. 每天，我们都会见到有各种抗议活动。
The majority of the people up there are peaceful. 那里的大多数人，都爱好和平。
But as long as our country continues to divide itself, 但只要我们的国家继续“割裂自己”，
I believe there's more to come. 我相信，未来还会有更多的（冲击风潮）。
You poke a dog long enough,the dog's going to bite. 如果你一直用棍子，去捅一条狗，狗也会咬人的。
If you're going to push people to the extremes, 如果你要把人逼到极端，
violence is inevitable. 暴力是不可避免的。
[Sanders] I drove up to this building a hundred times. [桑德斯] 我开车来这栋楼上百次了。
We used to go on our break up there over that wall. 我们过去，经常在那堵墙那边分手。
- Mm-hmm. - We would stay... —嗯。 -我们会留下来...
We'd take treats and stuff and go up there and watch the kids play in the playground. 我们会带上零食和其他东西，去那里看孩子们在操场上玩耍。
That's where I found Colton.You know that, right? 我就是在那里找到科尔顿的。你知道的，对吧?
- Yeah. - Right there. -是的。 -就在那儿。
[Sanders] When I delved into the bombing and started having questions, [桑德斯] 当我深入研究爆炸事件，并开始有疑问时，
I told a reporter, I said, 我告诉一个记者，我说，
"You know, it's not going to be too many years “你知道，过不了多少年，
that when I tell someone I lost my grandchildren in the bombing,they'll say, 'Which one?'" 当我告诉别人，我的孙子孙女在爆炸中丧生时，他们会问，‘哪一次爆炸？’”
- Exactly. - And that's where we are today. —没错。 —这就是我们今天的处境。
It's still hard to believe it's been 28 years. 很难相信，已经28年过去了。
Yeah. 是的。
Love you guys.We'll see you next year. 爱你们。我们明年见。
You ready? 你好受点儿了吗？
Yeah. Bye, guys. 是的，再见，朋友们。
俄克拉荷马城爆炸案，仍然是美国历史上 最致命的针对政府的国内恐怖主义行为。
[somber music playing] [忧伤的音乐响起]
翻译：hardstick 校订：hardstick 时间轴：hardstick